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Poll: Your choice for 61 with 4 darts
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25
28.07%
16 28.07%
T15
33.33%
19 33.33%
T7
15.79%
9 15.79%
T19
10.53%
6 10.53%
other
12.28%
7 12.28%
Total 57 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

61 Remaining
I'm always going for T19. If the single 19 comes, I can easily set up 32.
Reply
I go the 15's route as a single leaves 46 and you're already right there and small adjustment to the 10 / 6 wire -
I also like the double 8 left as opposed to double 2 when you go the 19's.
Reply
Why go for the smaller target?

A miss on either T15 or 25 requires hitting a single to correct. That makes them equivalent when missing. The benefit is the 25 is bigger than the triple.  Getting two shots at a double is much easier to do if you just have to hit the 25.
Reply
(11-10-2015, 05:42 PM)BigE Wrote: Why go for the smaller target?

A miss on either T15 or 25 requires hitting a single to correct. That makes them equivalent when missing. The benefit is the 25 is bigger than the triple.  Getting two shots at a double is much easier to do if you just have to hit the 25.

The miss is not equivalent - I am taking the risk on my first shot shooting at a smaller target - but I can drastically improve my odds on the second shot by leaving larger spaces to shoot at -- if I hit single 15 - I can shoot wire of 10/6 to leave an out - if I hit T10 I have 31 left and can shoot at 7-19-3-17 to setup an out

Going at bull I can hit several numbers where on the second turn I have only one pie to shoot at to setup an out

So I guess what I am saying is that I have a better chance of guaranteeing myself at least one dart at an out going at 15 -
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T11 for D14
hit single 11 still have 50 showoff with Bull Finish or 3 darts to go 10 tops
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t15 or t7 for me
Reply
BOOOOOOOOOM...!

Straight in the T7 for Tops finish, then a sideways shuffle giving it Large with a Head Butt at nothing accompanied by Low level Fist pump....
Reply
(11-11-2015, 07:35 PM)Lurker1 Wrote:
(11-10-2015, 05:42 PM)BigE Wrote: Why go for the smaller target?

A miss on either T15 or 25 requires hitting a single to correct. That makes them equivalent when missing. The benefit is the 25 is bigger than the triple.  Getting two shots at a double is much easier to do if you just have to hit the 25.

The miss is not equivalent - I am taking the risk on my first shot shooting at a smaller target - but I can drastically improve my odds on the second shot by leaving larger spaces to shoot at -- if I hit single 15 - I can shoot wire of 10/6 to leave an out - if I hit T10 I have 31 left and can shoot at 7-19-3-17 to setup an out

Going at bull I can hit several numbers where on the second turn I have only one pie to shoot at to setup an out

So I guess what I am saying is that I have a better chance of guaranteeing myself at least one dart at an out going at 15 -

With all respect,  are you serious about missing a shot to the point of desiring a 4 segment wide section of the board to shoot at, but suggest a *triple* as the first shot?

I guess it matters how far from your target you expect to miss.

For a beginner, Kaitanen's suggestion for the first shot on 61 with three darts in hand is the T7 on the 19 side since either T7 or T19 will give you a shot at a double ( tops or 4 ).    Hitting 19 leaves the 6/10 wire to shoot at.  Hitting 7 means 14 for tops.  Much like missing into the 10.

The biggest benefit with T7 is that if you miss into the T19 you are ok. 

T15 has no such benefit. --  If you miss into the T10 or T2, you are not on a double.

 I like to use Kaitanen as one reference for outs, because his approach to outshot selection is so very very un-emotional -- he completely ignores ego, and relies only on pure number crunching from his computer simulation.  This is the link to part of the book he published.   I wish I could see the whole thing!

https://reocities.com/ResearchTriangle/f.../tdb1.html

His suggestion though is to shoot at the 25, which is supported by a lot of the pros doing exactly that.  I've yet to see one shoot for a triple instead of the 25.
Reply
(11-12-2015, 04:51 AM)BigE Wrote:
(11-11-2015, 07:35 PM)Lurker1 Wrote:
(11-10-2015, 05:42 PM)BigE Wrote: Why go for the smaller target?

A miss on either T15 or 25 requires hitting a single to correct. That makes them equivalent when missing. The benefit is the 25 is bigger than the triple.  Getting two shots at a double is much easier to do if you just have to hit the 25.

The miss is not equivalent - I am taking the risk on my first shot shooting at a smaller target - but I can drastically improve my odds on the second shot by leaving larger spaces to shoot at -- if I hit single 15 - I can shoot wire of 10/6 to leave an out - if I hit T10 I have 31 left and can shoot at 7-19-3-17 to setup an out

Going at bull I can hit several numbers where on the second turn I have only one pie to shoot at to setup an out

So I guess what I am saying is that I have a better chance of guaranteeing myself at least one dart at an out going at 15 -

With all respect,  are you serious about missing a shot to the point of desiring a 4 segment wide section of the board to shoot at, but suggest a *triple* as the first shot?

I guess it matters how far from your target you expect to miss.

For a beginner, Kaitanen's suggestion for the first shot on 61 with three darts in hand is the T7 on the 19 side since either T7 or T19 will give you a shot at a double ( tops or 4 ).    Hitting 19 leaves the 6/10 wire to shoot at.  Hitting 7 means 14 for tops.  Much like missing into the 10.

The biggest benefit with T7 is that if you miss into the T19 you are ok. 

T15 has no such benefit. --  If you miss into the T10 or T2, you are not on a double.

 I like to use Kaitanen as one reference for outs, because his approach to outshot selection is so very very un-emotional -- he completely ignores ego, and relies only on pure number crunching from his computer simulation.  This is the link to part of the book he published.   I wish I could see the whole thing!

https://reocities.com/ResearchTriangle/f.../tdb1.html

His suggestion though is to shoot at the 25, which is supported by a lot of the pros doing exactly that.  I've yet to see one shoot for a triple instead of the 25.

I do see the merit in going for the t7 t19 wire however as I noted above I generally choose not to go that way because you end up with few options for doubles to shoot at - My past experience of going t19 single 2 bust and being back at 61 again has led me to the path I choose -

also some pro's do advocate this way -

https://www.dartsnutz.net/forum/showthre...?tid=16783
Reply
What does George advocate?
Reply
Just seen peter wright throw for 25 but hit bull left himself 11...He didn't look happy
Reply
(11-13-2015, 12:14 AM)Zimchaz Wrote: Just seen peter wright throw for 25 but hit bull left himself 11...He didn't look happy

I would not be happy either.  But that does not stop me from shooting for the 25.

If anyone should expect to hit a triple, it is a pro. Ask yourself then: why did he not shoot T15?
Reply


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