Shafts – Short Vs Long

[Getagrip]

originally posted by coolhandfluke in old forum:


FOUND THIS WORTH A READ.



Shafts – Short Vs Long

As stated there is no best shaft to use, if you are a watcher of darts and new to the game you will notice all darters will have their own preference in shaft length and type, plastic, metal & nylon.

When choosing a dart, it is best to try it first. As there are not many dedicated dart shops around it isn’t always possible to throw them in the store at a practise board. But if you know anyone that plays asked if they will allow you to have a throw of their darts, this way you are more likely to find a weight that suits you. Choosing a shaft and flight to go with the dart can be as equally as difficult as choosing a dart.

Short shafts tend to move the centre of gravity of the dart towards the front end of the barrel. For good throwing most dart throwers hold their darts at this point so if you hold your darts at the front end of the barrel the short shafts might be best suited to your throw. Long shaft will effectively move the centre of gravity of the dart towards the back, so if you throw your darts holding them at the back of the dart a long shaft my suit you better than short shafts.

Replies from old forum:

Bigshow

A good read indeed.

hamo

I use medium stems and my mate uses short...we wer down playing at the n.I open last weekend and got talking to Stephen bunting after one of his games.the mate was winding him up and having a bit of banter when practicing on the board beside him so got talking proper after. He said to my mate that he would never improve when throwing short stems because he was in his comfort zone...my thinking was he was just pullin his leg but he has been throwing this week and done a few sessions with long stems and found they worked well.....as for me, I can't become friends with shorts......I think its in his head but who am I to argue with the bullet

Jimbo21

It may well be in his head, but you look at Taylor and he changes his set up every 12 months or so, just looking at getting that little more out of himself.

Once you stop improving, it may be time for a little tweak.

getagrip

I hold my darts at the front but tend to find medium shafts better.

Yesterday I got an old brass set that had long thin cane shafts and feather flights.

The darts themselves are centre loaded, they are filled in the middle with lead.

I hit lots of T20's with them and they fly beautifully straight, was really amazed at the way they fly, problem is I keep smacking myself in the face with the shafts being so long.

Chalk is Cheap

getagrip wrote:
I hold my darts at the front but tend to find medium shafts better.

Yesterday I got an old brass set that had long thin cane shafts and feather flights.

The darts themselves are centre loaded, they are filled in the middle with lead.

I hit lots of T20's with them and they fly beautifully straight, was really amazed at the way they fly, problem is I keep smacking myself in the face with the shafts being so long.


^^^this.

Nucky

I have mixed thoughts on the shaft length issue. I'll use Barney as an example. I'm not sure what the percentage was but I remember a while back where an announcer said that his finishing percentage improved after changing from a short shaft/stem to a longer one.

Being a pub player who switches darts and shaft/stem combinations more than I change my underwear, I wonder how much this has hurt my game rather than improve it. In Barney's case, we all know what he's done in the past few years. His consistency has been pretty inconsistent!

My point/question is - should you pick a length and stay with it, or can you actually improve by changing the length? Just my own thoughts, I realize that some barrels don't work well with a shorter length and vice/versa with longer ones.

In my case, I realize that I need to pick one shaft and dart setup and stay with it. Just wish I could though

Has anyone out there moved from a short stem/shaft to a longer one and seen there game improve?

zanellan

I grip the dart right at the back of the dart where it mets the stem (like Beaton) but I can only throw with short stems so I'm an exception to this theory! I have heard from a professional that the general rule of thumb is that if you use a short dart then you should use a long stem, if using a long dart then use a short stem etc, this theory seems to work for me but of course there is going to be a exception to the rule! If there wasn't and every one had the same set ups it would be a whole less interesting!

Skyblueadam

I either have to have 48mm or 20mm. Can't do anything in between.
Might sound weird but they only seem to be the ones that land 'correctly' in the board for me

Donkey

Ive started to use medium stems and they work well for me.

Ive noticed that sometimes when I used short ones the dart could get a little off spin. I guess this is because more weight were put on the front end of the dart meaning it would tip down if I didn't balance it it with my other fingers.

getagrip

Its very curious that Bristow gripped the stems and just rested the barrels on his finger, I think he looks like he had medium stems but his barrels were quite long.

Saber

inbetween for me (cosmo's)

Rebel

I agree, if I use long darts (50mm Lewis) I will use a short stem but if using shorter darts (35mm Klaasen) I will use a medium stem to make the darts fly/land in the board at the same angle.

I also agree, all about balancing the darts, however I also know guys that use long darts and long stems as well as one guy who uses 10g bullets with a tom thumb stem and slim flights that he has cut down to half the size, tiny things.

Eslotes

Rebel wrote:
if I use long darts (50mm Lewis) I will use a short stem but if using shorter darts (35mm Klaasen) I will use a medium stem to make the darts fly/land in the board at the same angle.

true i would also say that short stem for 48-52mm barrel and for 40-45mm barrel i would use a medium stem...

Spat66

I use inbetween on everything, works for me

Franz

I use 48mm shaft cause i feel more confident, but I've noticed that there more deflection by the darts already on the board.

basketcasE

distance between center of gravity and center of flight surface area (normally known as center of pressure) is the important distance to understand. u can assume the center of pressure is around the center of ur flight.

the greater this distance the smaller of a flight you can get away w/ because of leverage. you can imagine this w/ the CoG acting like the fulcrum. the downside is the longer this distance the slower it will straighten itself out. like anything it's a compromise.

and easy way to think of a dart's yaw (fishtailing) is like a weather vane. and dart's pitch (angle it enters the board) is much like a javelin

Jimbo21

I will use any length flight that will keep the dart approx the same length as the current set I am using.

loopdog

when I g o for league I will have med and long with me. About 1/4" or 1.25cm difference. Last night I did the same thing and even flighted both stems so I could change. I like both, I guess I am trying to fix or repair "fish tail", but i don't want to be thinking of that on the line. I figure this out during warm up, it could be weeks or more in between changes They won't let me use my extra long stems, though,
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basketcasE

depends on how hard u throw. if u throw fast go w/ a shorter stem. slow-med i'd go longer.

i say this because it takes more force (drag) against your flight wings when they are closer to your center of gravity to straigthen it out while in flight. and the opposite is tru for the longer stems (less force)

so if you throw short stems slowly... you're not gonna have enough drag to rotate them about to fly straight (yaw)

it's easier to think about if you consider the dart at a complete standstill and the drag coming from wind like a wind tunnel. now your dart is essentially a weather vane. it takes stronger winds to rotate a dart w/ a shorter stem, than it does w/ a longer stem.

[grantkooga]

One thing I have learnt and this is from inexperience; if you use short flights and hold your dart at the front the dart will go in relatively normal, however hold it at the back with short flights and the dart tends to stick up a bit witch blocks the treble 20's bed. If you use a long shaft and hold it at the back, that darts goes in at a "normal" angle that most players are happy with, however, if you hold it at the front, the the darts go in very straight like Phil Taylor's but if you don't throw them hard enough they will simply fall out. Everyone is different and personal preference is important, go with what feels best when choosing a shaft, try both long and short!

[Getagrip]

One thing I have learnt and this is from inexperience; if you use short flights and hold your dart at the front the dart will go in relatively normal, however hold it at the back with short flights and the dart tends to stick up a bit witch blocks the treble 20's bed. If you use a long shaft and hold it at the back, that darts goes in at a "normal" angle that most players are happy with, however, if you hold it at the front, the the darts go in very straight like Phil Taylor's but if you don't throw them hard enough they will simply fall out. Everyone is different and personal preference is important, go with what feels best when choosing a shaft, try both long and short!

I hold it at the front but I always tended to stick with a medium stem and standard flight but I guess the length of the barrel has to be considered too and it is useful to experiment a little.

More often than not though my darts always stuck in level but recently they have a slight upward angle, not sure why maybe I have change my grip placement a little?

[grantkooga]

[quote='grantkooga' pid='3146' dateline='1364942763']
One thing I have learnt and this is from inexperience; if you use short flights and hold your dart at the front the dart will go in relatively normal, however hold it at the back with short flights and the dart tends to stick up a bit witch blocks the treble 20's bed. If you use a long shaft and hold it at the back, that darts goes in at a "normal" angle that most players are happy with, however, if you hold it at the front, the the darts go in very straight like Phil Taylor's but if you don't throw them hard enough they will simply fall out. Everyone is different and personal preference is important, go with what feels best when choosing a shaft, try both long and short!

I hold it at the front but I always tended to stick with a medium stem and standard flight but I guess the length of the barrel has to be considered too and it is useful to experiment a little.

More often than not though my darts always stuck in level but recently they have a slight upward angle, not sure why maybe I have change my grip placement a little?
[

Thinking about it, Barny throws with long darts with medium shafts and holds it at the front, but he manages to throw his darts perfectly well! Quite different to other players throws...

[Getagrip]

could be many other factors involved though such as the point of release and how quickly they travel to the board and whether they have enough time to level out, its all trial and error really.Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

[*Saber*]

Yeah Grip is right.

[eplea]

Had a quick read of the above....didn't see this so....

Plastic (nylon, poly, etc): cheap, straight, can break relatively easily.

Metal (aluminum, magnesium, etc): more expensive, difficult to break, bend.

I always recommend plastic stems to new throwers (and have been known to try and convince old throwers from time to time). Reason being, I'd rather throw straight darts than bent darts. Metal stems bend. For the cost of them, I don't want to replace bent stems all the time. Plastic stems don't bend. If enough force is put on them (usually more than required to bend an aluminium stem) they break. I'd rather replace an plastic stem once a night knowing my darts are straight than to go a day, week, month, season(?) with a bent aluminium stem.

[nnj]

heres my experience on stemes:

i started with basic nylon stems, broke MANY.
switched to aluminum after about a year, bent MANY
switched to a "premium brand" carbon ...broke 1 stem in 2 years, never bends
switched to a "premium brand" plastic...have not broken one yet (18 months)

its like most things in life...if you buy cheap...it is cheap...if youre prepared to fork out a little extra it is worth it in the long run

[Cat]

Oh my, my brain has been "shafted".... Much to think about here.

[Regulatori]

I'm with Getagrip. I'm a front gripper and the medium stem is the only length that works for me. If I try anything shorter the flights will wobble/dart will stake a strange path.

Stem length depends on so many factors: dart length/balance, flight shape, where you grip, arc of your throw, how hard/soft you throw, etc.... Two people can throw the exact same dart setup while holding the exact same spot and get two different flight trajectories, tail angles, smoothness vs wobble in flight, etc..

[Cat]

For those of you who tinker (or are headed in that direction), this might be food for thought.

[Omp]

I have experimented quite a lot with shaft length over the last year. I won't even pretend to have reached any final conclusions but the following is what I have found so far:

A shorter stem seems to make my darts fly quicker and flatter
A longer stem gives me more feel for the dart, making adjustment for subsequent throws easier
The flight is a much more important in how straight my dart flies/lands

Of course, this is just me and it might just exist in my head!

[Dan Bruffell]

I go short stems myself, started off with med, then went shorter, my target Capricorns fly really well with ultra short grippers and my target c10s fly well with pro grip shorts which are a bit longer, but the barrels are shorter, the c10s also fly really well with unicorn grippers ultra short but they look a bit silly. i occasionally for shits and gigs put a med in inter med stem in but my tend to swirl in the air and land leanin over to the right

[GONKO]

I've moved from 100micron flights, number 6 (sometimes a ten-x) and short stems on daytona fire tapered df03 dart to a standard winmau no2 - 75micron straight barrel. Same shafts (target short).
Although the winmau dart is heavier, I find I can throw with less effort, the dart is slower to the board and lands at my normal angle.
I am thinking of moving to a tweenie or medium stem next to slow up the dart and slow the release more.
It should reduce any snatches.
The Winmau darts are the 95% tungsten ones in the catalalogue shop (Hi Impact). - Great darts, and loved throwing them when I got them first.
Back with them now.

[TLDarts]

I like stems of different sizes depending on barrel length. I hold dart in the back but like overall length the same. Target power shafts