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Hi Lee,

After the number of bounceouts at the BDO Worlds on the new Dual Core board, it seems a lot of people are blaming the board, personally I have not had the same problem with the board myself but was wondering what the feedback was from the players, did they blame the board and what do they think of it overall
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(01-25-2014, 05:54 PM)Getagrip Wrote: Hi Lee,

After the number of bounceouts at the BDO Worlds on the new Dual Core board, it seems a lot of people are blaming the board, personally I have not had the same problem with the board myself but was wondering what the feedback was from the players, did they blame the board and what do they think of it overall

Thanks for the question, the term 'bounceout' actually means when a dart hits a wire and deflects away from the dartboard and onto the floor. The number of times this happend is extremely low when put into context with the amount of darts were thrown during the BDO worlds.

The vast majority of lost darts happen because of dart on dart deflections and there are many, many reasons for this ranging from different points, shaft/flight setup, weight of throw, weight of darts, choice of throw, angle of entry etc.
I have analysed all of the above and worked with many professional players to help them to maximise their scoring potential.

I have also scrutinised our products more than anybody else and am pleased with the way that the board looked and played. I even carried the dartboard used in one of the semi finals back to my workshop for testing and had Merv King down to hammer it for a few hours. I can assure you he hit every square milimeter of the key trebles and was over the moon with its performance.

I also spent a few days at Lakeside talking to players, officials, customers and spectators and the feedback and comments I got were absolutely superb. Many of which have commented as such on social media.

The Dual core is a ground breaking concept and has been received extremely well since it's launch, in fact we are struggling to keep up with production at the moment as it has exceeded all our expectations. Something we are very proud of Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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Thanks for the quick response, not gonna wear you out with silly questions but is Winmau or other manufacturer's experimenting with different materials other than tungsten for darts?
Thanks your your response in advance.
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Well I like it a lot so far and I know what you mean by bounceouts but it seems to be a phrase that is no doubt applied wrongly in the instances that we seen at Lakeside. I have only had one bounce off a wire so far but no drop outs from darts that have hit the sisal and no surface bounce outs from the dart hitting the sisal and not penetrating it. Milkysunshine had a theory that maybe the first layer of sisal is a little too loose and the guys who are throwing the very light darts or with a light throw are not going past the first layer and sticking into the denser second layer, does that sound plausible?

I think thats great that you went to the trouble of getting the Semi Final board and had Merv throw at it, that is good proof that you guys are committed to continually assessing the boards performance and is testament to the effort of research you guys do to achieve the best possible. Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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Mervin throws a 22g dart I believe and does not have a really hard throw. He's a good person to have test this theory.
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Is the bull ring on the dual core now a solid piece instead of hollow so this doesn't happen?

This board was only about 3 months old.

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Also, I've seen both boards at the pub start to bulge after only ~4-5 months. Not bulging in wear areas, but in various areas around the board. Is this common, or is it a byproduct of the environment where it gets colder with higher humidity at night with the heat off, then really dry with the forced air heat in the day? (Or air conditioning in the summer) I am in charge of turning the board every 2 weeks, so I know that was done.

My blade 4 at home is a year old with many many hours on it and it still looks and plays fantastic. Other than the ink getting all over my hands when I pull my darts and having it discolor the white segments, I have no complaints at all on my home board. I do know you addressed that issue with the Dual Core so thank you!
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Hi Milky, to be fair I can see that the bullseye area on your pic has had many, many darts thrown at it. Unfortunately no matter how many times the board is turned the bull area still takes the same pasting lol! 3 months can be along time for a well used dartboard.. We have testers throwing darts all day long that could go through quite a few in that time, recording each and every throw and tallying every bounce out. Our results show that the boards leaving the factory consistently come out on top.

Regarding the bulging (I use the term hedgehog lol), basically no. This is not common on non worn areas if the board is used in reasonable conditions. Please understand that's difficult for me to comment having not inspected the board nor do I know the exact conditions it's being used in. What I can say though, is that temperature 'could' affect the adhesive bonding the board and that humidity could also be a factor as sisal is hydroscopic - meaning that it absorbs and dissipates moisture, hence alterning the relative density.

If you are not happy with the boards performance please email the address on the Winmau website so that we can look into it further.

Hope this helps,

Cheers, Lee
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(01-26-2014, 11:11 AM)*Saber* Wrote: Thanks for the quick response, not gonna wear you out with silly questions but is Winmau or other manufacturer's experimenting with different materials other than tungsten for darts?
Thanks your your response in advance.

Hi Saber,

Thanks for the question.. Yes. We are constantly experimenting with different materials and concepts. Unfortunately I could not possibly disclose any of it though...sorry Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images. Keep an eye out for something ground breaking next year though Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

Cheers, Lee
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oooo that sounds good, that will be the Uranium Nitride coating Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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(01-27-2014, 11:31 PM)LeeUxy Wrote:
(01-26-2014, 11:11 AM)*Saber* Wrote: Thanks for the quick response, not gonna wear you out with silly questions but is Winmau or other manufacturer's experimenting with different materials other than tungsten for darts?
Thanks your your response in advance.

Hi Saber,

Thanks for the question.. Yes. We are constantly experimenting with different materials and concepts. Unfortunately I could not possibly disclose any of it though...sorry Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images. Keep an eye out for something ground breaking next year though Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

Cheers, Lee

Thank you Sir for the quick answer.
Cheers- Saber
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(01-27-2014, 11:22 PM)LeeUxy Wrote: Hi Milky, to be fair I can see that the bullseye area on your pic has had many, many darts thrown at it. Unfortunately no matter how many times the board is turned the bull area still takes the same pasting lol! 3 months can be along time for a well used dartboard.. We have testers throwing darts all day long that could go through quite a few in that time, recording each and every throw and tallying every bounce out. Our results show that the boards leaving the factory consistently come out on top.

Regarding the bulging (I use the term hedgehog lol), basically no. This is not common on non worn areas if the board is used in reasonable conditions. Please understand that's difficult for me to comment having not inspected the board nor do I know the exact conditions it's being used in. What I can say though, is that temperature 'could' affect the adhesive bonding the board and that humidity could also be a factor as sisal is hydroscopic - meaning that it absorbs and dissipates moisture, hence alterning the relative density.

If you are not happy with the boards performance please email the address on the Winmau website so that we can look into it further.

Hope this helps,

Cheers, Lee

I think what Milkysunshine was getting at was the fact that there are big gouges and even holes in the wire of the bull segment, I was under the impression that the board is turned to stop compaction of the fibers and not to save putting holes in wire, I can understand this happening on a lower end market wire board, where the wiring is not hardened/tempered, but not on the greatest board the world has ever seen.

I always thought that the wire system was hardened to reduce gouging of the wire and still think this is the case, but I think that due to the bull segment wiring being a thicker wire, hence more surface area, it seems points are digging in, rather than slipping off, even though some of these points are probably to sharp, I would have thought a harder wire for the bull segment should fix this or at least alleviate it.

I was also under the impression that the photo was taken after someone had closed some holes with long nose pliers as well, this to me is another tell that the wire could be harder.
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(01-27-2014, 11:22 PM)LeeUxy Wrote: Hi Milky, to be fair I can see that the bullseye area on your pic has had many, many darts thrown at it. Unfortunately no matter how many times the board is turned the bull area still takes the same pasting lol! 3 months can be along time for a well used dartboard.. We have testers throwing darts all day long that could go through quite a few in that time, recording each and every throw and tallying every bounce out. Our results show that the boards leaving the factory consistently come out on top.

Regarding the bulging (I use the term hedgehog lol), basically no. This is not common on non worn areas if the board is used in reasonable conditions. Please understand that's difficult for me to comment having not inspected the board nor do I know the exact conditions it's being used in. What I can say though, is that temperature 'could' affect the adhesive bonding the board and that humidity could also be a factor as sisal is hydroscopic - meaning that it absorbs and dissipates moisture, hence alterning the relative density.

If you are not happy with the boards performance please email the address on the Winmau website so that we can look into it further.

Hope this helps,

Cheers, Lee

Thanks lee. I do believe the bulging is a climate issue within the bar. As I said... my home board is nearly flawless. I am stiill curious about the bull ring being a hollow piece of metal... is this still the case with the B4DC? Also... that board, to be fair and completely honest, had the bull ring already 'smushed' from shipping. It never had the blade edge it should. I think if it were a solid piece of metal vs a hollow formed piece it wouldn't have been as big of an issue.
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(01-28-2014, 03:10 AM)DIRTY G Wrote:
(01-27-2014, 11:22 PM)LeeUxy Wrote: Hi Milky, to be fair I can see that the bullseye area on your pic has had many, many darts thrown at it. Unfortunately no matter how many times the board is turned the bull area still takes the same pasting lol! 3 months can be along time for a well used dartboard.. We have testers throwing darts all day long that could go through quite a few in that time, recording each and every throw and tallying every bounce out. Our results show that the boards leaving the factory consistently come out on top.

Regarding the bulging (I use the term hedgehog lol), basically no. This is not common on non worn areas if the board is used in reasonable conditions. Please understand that's difficult for me to comment having not inspected the board nor do I know the exact conditions it's being used in. What I can say though, is that temperature 'could' affect the adhesive bonding the board and that humidity could also be a factor as sisal is hydroscopic - meaning that it absorbs and dissipates moisture, hence alterning the relative density.

If you are not happy with the boards performance please email the address on the Winmau website so that we can look into it further.

Hope this helps,

Cheers, Lee

I think what Milkysunshine was getting at was the fact that there are big gouges and even holes in the wire of the bull segment, I was under the impression that the board is turned to stop compaction of the fibers and not to save putting holes in wire, I can understand this happening on a lower end market wire board, where the wiring is not hardened/tempered, but not on the greatest board the world has ever seen.

I always thought that the wire system was hardened to reduce gouging of the wire and still think this is the case, but I think that due to the bull segment wiring being a thicker wire, hence more surface area, it seems points are digging in, rather than slipping off, even though some of these points are probably to sharp, I would have thought a harder wire for the bull segment should fix this or at least alleviate it.

I was also under the impression that the photo was taken after someone had closed some holes with long nose pliers as well, this to me is another tell that the wire could be harder.

You're spot on G. If the outer bull ring were a single piece of hardened or rolled metal vs a piece of formed metal with a hollow structure I feel it would be much more rigid. ...and yes, I did use some snips to close up some of the blatant holes in the metal. Many of the people in our league throw darts that are WAY TOO SHARP... and it shows... but once again... a solid vs hollow piece of ring around the bull would fix that
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I have read on the internet about the black ink bleeding into the white sections from darts going in and out of the Blade4 board. Could the staining in the white sections be just that? Also I tried to take a picture of it but the red of my bull seems to be puffing out I had noticed this a few months ago and it has not gotten worse but I am wondering if it's something I should be concerned about?

I have had the board for 6 months and maybe throw at it a hanful of hours a week average.

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