unicorn

Fit Flight Pro
"pop into a dart shop"?

I live in NYC, there is no such thing as a dart shop here.
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(12-17-2019, 04:40 PM)bkbum Wrote: "pop into a dart shop"?

I live in NYC, there is no such thing as a dart shop here.

Church.  Dartshops are pretty much a thing of the past, at least in the USA.  There is only one dartshop in the entire PNW and it is really a billiards shop with one half-wall dedicated to darts.  However, they sell _exclusively_ Maverick Freeflight darts.  Last time I was in there they said that they were going to stop carrying Fit Flights because people didn't like them.  I found that hard to believe as I am quite enamored with Fit Flight, but how can I argue with the only darts supply seller within 100+ miles of me?
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(12-17-2019, 07:37 AM)bkbum Wrote: 18 different types of flights. Experimentation could become expensive.

I am generally excited about the Pros but I also agree with bkbum's statement.
It would be quite nice if Cosmo tried to come up with some kind of "translation" table. With the Pros being heavier than Airs but lighter than Standards, it will take a lot of costly trial and error to find the right set.
Just as an example, I am mostly using w-shape Airs but would occasionally like to have slightly more lift and/or stability. Where do I go? The pear shape Airs have a lot more lift than w-shapes. Would the Pros' weight compensate for that? And to what degree? Or should I try a different shape Pro altogether? I see no way of making an educated guess, so yes, this would be an expensive transition. I do not feel terribly keen on that...
Please help us out here, Cosmo!
Always: Soft tip barrels with conversion points.
Currently: 17.4g Unicorn Phase 5 LP || 18.6g Tangent custom
Skill level: Pitiful
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(12-17-2019, 08:40 PM)Andreas Wrote:
(12-17-2019, 07:37 AM)bkbum Wrote: 18 different types of flights. Experimentation could become expensive.

I am generally excited about the Pros but I also agree with bkbum's statement.
It would be quite nice if Cosmo tried to come up with some kind of "translation" table. With the Pros being heavier than Airs but lighter than Standards, it will take a lot of costly trial and error to find the right set.
Just as an example, I am mostly using w-shape Airs but would occasionally like to have slightly more lift and/or stability. Where do I go? The pear shape Airs have a lot more lift than w-shapes. Would the Pros' weight compensate for that? And to what degree? Or should I try a different shape Pro altogether? I see no way of making an educated guess, so yes, this would be an expensive transition. I do not feel terribly keen on that...
Please help us out here, Cosmo!

We're actually forbidden from doing that because then that becomes "the word of Cosmo" and because there's too much individuality in a throw, that word would not be correct for everyone. 
Look at the formula calculating air resistance:Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.. The velocity is going to have way more of an impact on the throw than the size and shape of the flight. I would love to tell you "Hey man, try the S-2s. They should fly like this" but I can't because there's a great chance that they won't fly like that for you.

We do our damnedest to get samples out there for people to try before they buy. When we have booths at tournaments, we try to make sure whoever is running it (if we aren't doing it ourselves) has samples there for people to try. If there is a dart store near you and they DON'T have samples of ours (and stock us), they can request some from their supplier, who can request it from us and we'll send it out. 

If your closest "dart store" is a megaplex sports outlet whose dart "selection" consists of bottom barrel Unicorn brass sets with a 150% markup, we understand that it makes it really hard to try things out. What we can do is ask our players for their opinion and tell you, "We asked Steve West and he suggested you try the D-3s because of reasons." Then it's Steve's words, not ours. We will answer any mail submitted to us. If you go to https://www.cosmodarts.jp/en/contact/ and ask any question that doesn't look like spam from Russia, we'll answer it. If you're from Europe, just mail me directly at schuch.brian@c-cosmo.co.jp and I'll answer you (cause if you send it through that contact form, it'll just get forwarded on to me anyway).

We're not trying to bleed money out of people. We're trying to give you the ability to completely fine tune your setup. For 80% of the people out there, S-4 and S-5 is all they're ever going to need and all they're ever going to try (made up statistic, don't quote me on that). The others are for that smaller 20% that really want to get their equipment exact.

For you, Andreas, I know Biljardexperten has samples. I don't know if they've made use of them or not or even if you are conceivably close to them, but they have them.

Anyway, I hope I've clarified why we don't just come out and say that flight X will fly like this and flight Y will be like this and Z will differ from them in this way.
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Allow me to put forth an idea. Back in the day, Evolution Darts, a fine and highly esteemed dart maker in Germany, sent me a few sets of a new dart for use in my "Shoot it Forward" campaign. Read about it here: https://www.zeeple.com/2008/09/shoot-it-...paign.html . You could do something like that. Put a few sets of darts in a box, along with a goodly assortment of flights, new or otherwise, and send them to me. I will then organize a system for people trying the darts, and forwarding them onto the next person in the list. The only condition is that each recipient write up an honest review (or even just their impressions) in whatever place they frequent. Could be a blog (like me), facebook, or instasnap or whatever, or here, at Dartsnutz.

Just an idea. If you like it PM me and we can discuss!
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(12-18-2019, 06:33 AM)Zero Wrote: Allow me to put forth an idea. Back in the day, Evolution Darts, a fine and highly esteemed dart maker in Germany, sent me a few sets of a new dart for use in my "Shoot it Forward" campaign. Read about it here: https://www.zeeple.com/2008/09/shoot-it-...paign.html . You could do something like that. Put a few sets of darts in a box, along with a goodly assortment of flights, new or otherwise, and send them to me. I will then organize a system for people trying the darts, and forwarding them onto the next person in the list. The only condition is that each recipient write up an honest review (or even just their impressions) in whatever place they frequent. Could be a blog (like me), facebook, or instasnap or whatever, or here, at Dartsnutz.

Just an idea. If you like it PM me and we can discuss!

Thank you Zero.
We're actually discussing doing something like this currently. There will hopefully be news on it soonish
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Interesting looking flights but my only concern is that waffle style pattern on the flight, hard to tell from the images but if its quite pronounced then its just adding an extra something for the point of a dart to catch and deflect off as opposed to the more usual smooth surfaced flights?
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(12-18-2019, 08:18 AM)Cosmo Darts Europe Wrote:
(12-18-2019, 06:33 AM)Zero Wrote: Allow me to put forth an idea.  Back in the day, Evolution Darts, a fine and highly esteemed dart maker in Germany, sent me a few sets of a new dart for use in my "Shoot it Forward" campaign.  Read about it here:  https://www.zeeple.com/2008/09/shoot-it-...paign.html .  You could do something like that.  Put a few sets of darts in a box, along with a goodly assortment of flights, new or otherwise, and send them to me.  I will then organize a system for people trying the darts, and forwarding them onto the next person in the list.  The only condition is that each recipient write up an honest review (or even just their impressions) in whatever place they frequent.  Could be a blog (like me), facebook, or instasnap or whatever, or here, at Dartsnutz.

Just an idea.  If you like it PM me and we can discuss!

Thank you Zero.
We're actually discussing doing something like this currently. There will hopefully be news on it soonish

Great idea, include me on that list, many Fit players in our league and I would be happy to organize a Fit Flight Pro event for our league.   But I am most curious about when and where I can purchase some of these bad boys?
Levonster, Out
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(12-18-2019, 02:46 AM)Cosmo Darts Europe Wrote:
(12-17-2019, 08:40 PM)Andreas Wrote:
(12-17-2019, 07:37 AM)bkbum Wrote: 18 different types of flights. Experimentation could become expensive.

[...]
Please help us out here, Cosmo!

We're actually forbidden from doing that because then that becomes "the word of Cosmo" and because there's too much individuality in a throw, that word would not be correct for everyone. 
Look at the formula calculating air resistance:[Image: https://www.softschools.com/formulas/ima...mula_1.png]. The velocity is going to have way more of an impact on the throw than the size and shape of the flight. I would love to tell you "Hey man, try the S-2s. They should fly like this" but I can't because there's a great chance that they won't fly like that for you.

We do our damnedest to get samples out there for people to try before they buy. When we have booths at tournaments, we try to make sure whoever is running it (if we aren't doing it ourselves) has samples there for people to try. If there is a dart store near you and they DON'T have samples of ours (and stock us), they can request some from their supplier, who can request it from us and we'll send it out. 

If your closest "dart store" is a megaplex sports outlet whose dart "selection" consists of bottom barrel Unicorn brass sets with a 150% markup, we understand that it makes it really hard to try things out. What we can do is ask our players for their opinion and tell you, "We asked Steve West and he suggested you try the D-3s because of reasons." Then it's Steve's words, not ours. We will answer any mail submitted to us. If you go to https://www.cosmodarts.jp/en/contact/ and ask any question that doesn't look like spam from Russia, we'll answer it. If you're from Europe, just mail me directly at schuch.brian@c-cosmo.co.jp and I'll answer you (cause if you send it through that contact form, it'll just get forwarded on to me anyway).

We're not trying to bleed money out of people. We're trying to give you the ability to completely fine tune your setup. For 80% of the people out there, S-4 and S-5 is all they're ever going to need and all they're ever going to try (made up statistic, don't quote me on that). The others are for that smaller 20% that really want to get their equipment exact.

For you, Andreas, I know Biljardexperten has samples. I don't know if they've made use of them or not or even if you are conceivably close to them, but they have them.

Anyway, I hope I've clarified why we don't just come out and say that flight X will fly like this and flight Y will be like this and Z will differ from them in this way.

Thank you for the detailed answer, Brian!
I can see that making any statements about the behaviour could have unwanted implications.
Looking at the formula you provided, I would say it should be possible for me to make an educated guess if I knew the drag values (in my case of the w-shape Air and the different Pros). The weights and areas are known and the velocity would be a constant between tests with different flights.

I am not insinuating that Cosmo was trying to bleed money out of people. My apologies in case it came across that way. I was just remembering how many different sets of flights (and stems) it took before I finally arrived at my setup with size 4 slims and the w- and f-shape Airs.

Regarding trying them out at Biljardexperten (thanks for the info!), that is not an option for me. For the cost of getting there I could buy a sufficient number of sets to try.
Always: Soft tip barrels with conversion points.
Currently: 17.4g Unicorn Phase 5 LP || 18.6g Tangent custom
Skill level: Pitiful
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When will the Fit Flight Pro´s be available in Europe?
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@Andreas: No, I was probably being more defensive than I needed to be. It's a common complaint that I hear (that we have too much variations) and in regards to that in other situations, I often hear the "trying to bleed us" comment. I should apologize to you for my phrasing.

@Darren: The lines seemed more pronounced in the photos than they actually are. I can't guarantee that they won't cause any deflections, but the protective lip around the edge is a lot thicker than the grid is. I don't have one for comparison on me, but I don't think they are any more pronounced than the dimples on those L-Style flights (I would appreciate comparisons and being corrected if I'm wrong).
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Good information - great to have a manufacturer rep to answer questions in such depth.  Unfortunately, this thread is starting to sound a lot like advertising. Or at least an 'ask Cosmo' sort of theme.  Which is the same thing.

To that end, the last post has been edited to remove product availability information.  Fine for members not connected to Cosmo to post when they see it in shops.
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I’m very new to darts but am loving the Pro (Size 3) Pear-shaped flights. They seem MUCH more durable than the regular or Airs. I mistakenly bought swivel stems (carbon) and have since replaced them with locked. I love the solid-ness of the stem and flight but now think I want to go back to the swivels. I’m seeing way more bounce-outs with the locked. I love the system, though!!!
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Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.I love Fit Flight system with and use it exclusively for the last few years, it's just such a good design in terms of simplicity and function, just push and play.  I have been waiting patiently for the Fit Flight Pro, and I got them in S4 to replace the standard shape flights, and the V3 to replace hand cutting shape flights for the Sigma shape I was using on my Sigma darts.  The waffle is so subtle that it does not present any sort of issue in terms of deflection, or any undesirable aesthetic.  Overall a positive, especially if they start coming out with more colors and patterns.  On the one set of darts that I was using standard Shape (21g Snakebite WC)  flights, I went back to the Shape, the S4 was working well but a bit lighter and causing the darts to be a bit tail up for my liking, I am sure they will work great on other setups.  My Sigma darts (21g 970 Pro Gold) with the V3, is working out perfectly.  I won't be going back to hand cutting flights.  I am looking forward to trying some of the other shapes, will slowly be accumulating them as needs arise, and as you Nutz know the need arises frequently. Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
Levonster, Out
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Where is the best UK based place to order the pros?

Obviously I understand right now it's not a big thing in the scheme big things, but been using air shapes on my SP01s for ages, flicking back to slims at times but just thought i might take a change, just a shame they're not semi transparent now

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