Harrows Darts.

razor edge darts?
Tried out a pair of razor edge red dragon darts 22g and 23g, I really liked them the barrel length and the over  all length of the dart was fine, although a bit more thickness in the barrel  would have been nice , But I felt over all this dart was for me because I was throwing them better than my other pair ,  But I would like to know is this dart worth getting because its only 85 % tungsten and most of the top quality darts seem to be always 90% Tungsten . Also if anyone knows a dart that is nearly identical to the specs as the razor Edge  but better I would give them I try .
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Before anyone else says it - it is a set of darts, not a pair, as you get 3 lol.

As far as the tungsten content is concerned, unless you are being a complete snob about it, if the dart feels right and it works for you then it matters not one iota if it's 80% or 90% or whatever.
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Someone will probably weigh in concerning darts with similar specs.  Quite a few razor grip styles to choose from.  I used the first generation razor's edge, and found it a fine dart.  As my throw - and grip - developed, became too aggressive for me.  But a good dart nonetheless.

Don't get hyped up on tungsten percentage.  A good thread from the Beginner's Quick Reference guide goes into some detail:

https://www.dartsnutz.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=5719
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I'll try to clarify a little about the tungsten percentage.

Tungsten in a material that is commonly used in a lot of things that need to be heavy, without beeing big. For instance, tungsten inserts used to be quite common in golfclubs to add weight.

The thing with tungsten is that it is very dense (and therefor heavy) but it is also very soft. That is why you will never se a 100% tungsten dart. It would quite frankly get ruined or break. Therefor you will need to mix in some other materials, to make the barrel last. 

So, the general rule is that the higher the tungsten precentage, the thinner they can make the a dart.  I.e. if you want to make a 23g, 50mm straight barrel, you could make it thinner with a 95% tungsten billet, than you could with a 80%, BUT, the 95% one will also wear down more through the years.

So then it is a matter of what you, as an individual player, prefers. 
Many players wants their darts to be as thin as possible, to make more space in the trebles. Others, feel like a slightly thicker dart is easier to throw (and frankly,  who cares about the space in the treble if you cant get all three darts there to begin with)

In general, the manufacturers allways tend to mark their products with the tungsten percentage. Most players look at this and belives that the higher the percentage the better the quality, while in reality it is the other way around.  The manufacturers just want to name the tungsten percentage to justify the price difference, as a 95% tungsten dart is much more expensive to make than a 80%.

So, to sum this up: If you have found a dart that fits nicely in your hand, and you like to throw it, then you should not care to much about the tungsten percentage. If any, you should be happy that is is as "low" as 80, because agressive grips like razor/shark tends to wear down over time, but this will happen way slower on a 80% dart ;Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.


As a final note I can mention that I have had several sets of custom darts made to myself, and I don't even know the tungsten percentage of the last few ones I have recieved. I just care about drawing them up, getting the dimentions, weight, balance, grip (and so on) right. Then I leave it to the guys that make them to figure out how little tungsten we can get away with using Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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So, to sum this up: If you have found a dart that fits nicely in your hand, and you like to throw it, then you should not care to much about the tungsten percentage. If any, you should be happy that is is as "low" as 80, because agressive grips like razor/shark tends to wear down over time, but this will happen way slower on a 80% dart ;Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

^^^ Exactly this! I use the Harrows Black I.C.E. 24g, with razor grip. I have the darts for 2,5 years now and the grip is starting to wear a lot. As it is wearing down slowly over time, you probably don’t even know it is happening. At least I didn’t. But when I went to the local shop to try a set of 23g, I found the grip way to agressive. It was then that I realised how much my grip has deteriorated over time already. Something to consider as it is pretty much inevitable with this type of grip.
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The only reasons for the difference in the tungsten percentage is to create the correct dimensions and to make room for copper in copper-tungsten's. There's no qualitative differences in the dart. I dare say that some manufacturers try to use a dart with 95 or 97% tungsten for their sales pitch, though, even though it means nothing.
Probably about half of the darts I own have 80 or 85% tungsten, and so far I haven't lost any sleep over it. As others have said, if you feel the dart suits you and the price is good then nothing else matters.

The darts that you like can typically be found on ebay for between £16 and £21.
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As an alternative, the Unicorn Lumina are nice darts, and slightly thicker than the Razor Edge darts, but not a straight barrel, more of a torpedo shape.

Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

These are the DNA version, but there is also a natural tungsten version too. 

Jim
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(11-11-2019, 06:03 PM)Jefferz Wrote: The only reasons for the difference in the tungsten percentage is to create the correct dimensions.

This. Because I like short, bomb-shaped darts, I tend to get the higher percentage (90-95%) to make them a little thinner than they would otherwise be from a less dense alloy. But it’s just because it makes the dart feel better in my hand. I’d happily pay less for the same weight and dimensions, if there was a way. Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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(11-11-2019, 04:07 PM)MariusOveras Wrote: I'll try to clarify a little about the tungsten percentage.

Tungsten in a material that is commonly used in a lot of things that need to be heavy, without beeing big. For instance, tungsten inserts used to be quite common in golfclubs to add weight.

The thing with tungsten is that it is very dense (and therefor heavy) but it is also very soft. That is why you will never se a 100% tungsten dart. It would quite frankly get ruined or break. Therefor you will need to mix in some other materials, to make the barrel last. 

So, the general rule is that the higher the tungsten precentage, the thinner they can make the a dart.  I.e. if you want to make a 23g, 50mm straight barrel, you could make it thinner with a 95% tungsten billet, than you could with a 80%, BUT, the 95% one will also wear down more through the years.

So then it is a matter of what you, as an individual player, prefers. 
Many players wants their darts to be as thin as possible, to make more space in the trebles. Others, feel like a slightly thicker dart is easier to throw (and frankly,  who cares about the space in the treble if you cant get all three darts there to begin with)

In general, the manufacturers allways tend to mark their products with the tungsten percentage. Most players look at this and belives that the higher the percentage the better the quality, while in reality it is the other way around.  The manufacturers just want to name the tungsten percentage to justify the price difference, as a 95% tungsten dart is much more expensive to make than a 80%.

So, to sum this up: If you have found a dart that fits nicely in your hand, and you like to throw it, then you should not care to much about the tungsten percentage. If any, you should be happy that is is as "low" as 80, because agressive grips like razor/shark tends to wear down over time, but this will happen way slower on a 80% dart ;Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.


As a final note I can mention that I have had several sets of custom darts made to myself, and I don't even know the tungsten percentage of the last few ones I have recieved. I just care about drawing them up, getting the dimentions, weight, balance, grip (and so on) right. Then I leave it to the guys that make them to figure out how little tungsten we can get away with using Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

Tungsten is not soft; it is hard and brittle. It is the brittleness that leads to alloying the tungsten with other metals to make it more machinable and less prone to breaking.
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(11-14-2019, 09:15 AM)bkbum Wrote:
(11-11-2019, 04:07 PM)MariusOveras Wrote: I'll try to clarify a little about the tungsten percentage.

Tungsten in a material that is commonly used in a lot of things that need to be heavy, without beeing big. For instance, tungsten inserts used to be quite common in golfclubs to add weight.

The thing with tungsten is that it is very dense (and therefor heavy) but it is also very soft. That is why you will never se a 100% tungsten dart. It would quite frankly get ruined or break. Therefor you will need to mix in some other materials, to make the barrel last. 

So, the general rule is that the higher the tungsten precentage, the thinner they can make the a dart.  I.e. if you want to make a 23g, 50mm straight barrel, you could make it thinner with a 95% tungsten billet, than you could with a 80%, BUT, the 95% one will also wear down more through the years.

So then it is a matter of what you, as an individual player, prefers. 
Many players wants their darts to be as thin as possible, to make more space in the trebles. Others, feel like a slightly thicker dart is easier to throw (and frankly,  who cares about the space in the treble if you cant get all three darts there to begin with)

In general, the manufacturers allways tend to mark their products with the tungsten percentage. Most players look at this and belives that the higher the percentage the better the quality, while in reality it is the other way around.  The manufacturers just want to name the tungsten percentage to justify the price difference, as a 95% tungsten dart is much more expensive to make than a 80%.

So, to sum this up: If you have found a dart that fits nicely in your hand, and you like to throw it, then you should not care to much about the tungsten percentage. If any, you should be happy that is is as "low" as 80, because agressive grips like razor/shark tends to wear down over time, but this will happen way slower on a 80% dart ;Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.


As a final note I can mention that I have had several sets of custom darts made to myself, and I don't even know the tungsten percentage of the last few ones I have recieved. I just care about drawing them up, getting the dimentions, weight, balance, grip (and so on) right. Then I leave it to the guys that make them to figure out how little tungsten we can get away with using Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

Tungsten is not soft; it is hard and brittle. It is the brittleness that leads to alloying the tungsten with other metals to make it more machinable and less prone to breaking.

Was just about to mention this, definitely hard and brittle rather than soft Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images. 95% won't wear down quicker than 80% my first ever set was 95% (I just liked the look of them, didn't purposely buy high tungsten % didn't even know what it meant lol) and they lasted for years, the grip is still great now after 10 years.
Bulls NL 501 pyramid grip 24g
L Style flights & stems
Unicorn Volute points
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80 % tungsten is probably good enough for most people, I actually have some relatively chunky darts (stainless steel and lower tungsten content ones (harrows genesis and harrows black jacks)) some days the extra chunkiness helps my grip, very high tungsten content darts could potentially be more brittle, the few very high tungsten darts, I personally own seem overly thin (some days).

I like the sound the black jacks make when they clash (a different sound from most darts) the genesis I think are only about 40 odd percent tungsten, but, throw surprisingly well for me and I like them quite a lot (the genesis in 23 grams, was my go to dart at one point).

I bought the black jacks in 20 grams, because, when, I used to play (approx 30 odd years ago) I owned a set (tungsten ones where cost prohibitive, at the time) the 20 gram ones being slim enough to allow close grouping. When I was younger I owned a set in 18 and 22 grams, the 18 s being too light and the 22 s being too fat, they tend to "float" more than a tungsten set even in 20 grams (brass darts seem to have a more floaty feel, than tungsten, as well) and need a slightly different throwing technique, on my own set, kite flights helped with this issue (which is part of the fun, learning to throw them) back then I didnt know anyone else interested in darts, so, kind of tried to discover stuff for myself and I bought the ones I currently own for mostly nostalgic reasons (I have fond memories of using them all those years ago) I still enjoy throwing them though.

As others have mentioned, very high content tungsten might actually chip, or, wear out a bit on the fast side, compared to 80 odd percent ones.
Yes its me, I checked in the mirror. 

Current throwing weights of 18 to 24 grams.

Current darts set up :- 23 gram, darts clearance (no name scalloped darts) with a 50 mm barrel, 41 mm nylon shafts + standard flights.
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(11-14-2019, 09:15 AM)bkbum Wrote:
(11-11-2019, 04:07 PM)MariusOveras Wrote: I'll try to clarify a little about the tungsten percentage.

Tungsten in a material that is commonly used in a lot of things that need to be heavy, without beeing big. For instance, tungsten inserts used to be quite common in golfclubs to add weight.

The thing with tungsten is that it is very dense (and therefor heavy) but it is also very soft. That is why you will never se a 100% tungsten dart. It would quite frankly get ruined or break. Therefor you will need to mix in some other materials, to make the barrel last. 

So, the general rule is that the higher the tungsten precentage, the thinner they can make the a dart.  I.e. if you want to make a 23g, 50mm straight barrel, you could make it thinner with a 95% tungsten billet, than you could with a 80%, BUT, the 95% one will also wear down more through the years.

So then it is a matter of what you, as an individual player, prefers. 
Many players wants their darts to be as thin as possible, to make more space in the trebles. Others, feel like a slightly thicker dart is easier to throw (and frankly,  who cares about the space in the treble if you cant get all three darts there to begin with)

In general, the manufacturers allways tend to mark their products with the tungsten percentage. Most players look at this and belives that the higher the percentage the better the quality, while in reality it is the other way around.  The manufacturers just want to name the tungsten percentage to justify the price difference, as a 95% tungsten dart is much more expensive to make than a 80%.

So, to sum this up: If you have found a dart that fits nicely in your hand, and you like to throw it, then you should not care to much about the tungsten percentage. If any, you should be happy that is is as "low" as 80, because agressive grips like razor/shark tends to wear down over time, but this will happen way slower on a 80% dart ;Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.


As a final note I can mention that I have had several sets of custom darts made to myself, and I don't even know the tungsten percentage of the last few ones I have recieved. I just care about drawing them up, getting the dimentions, weight, balance, grip (and so on) right. Then I leave it to the guys that make them to figure out how little tungsten we can get away with using Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

Tungsten is not soft; it is hard and brittle. It is the brittleness that leads to alloying the tungsten with other metals to make it more machinable and less prone to breaking.


You are absolutely right, I have no idea how that mixup happened, as I am well aware. Must have stoppes focusing while writing or something

BUT the principle is still the same, a high percent tungsten dart would be more at risk of breaking, allthough this isn’t really a problem anyway.

No matter the physics, consentration lapses and bad grammar, the main point still is that OP should not worry about the percentage if he likes a dart Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Like others have said (like marius above) if you like the dart, that is probably the most important thing.

(I meant to add that at the bottom of my last post, but, decided to put it seperately, in case it was not noticed).

Ultimately its probably a personal thing, what you like about a dart, most of mine are 80 to 90 % tungsten, I dont think I own any higher than 90 % off hand (if I do I am unaware of it).

The thickness you mention of the barrel, in general a slightly lower tungsten content darts is slightly fatter in the barrel. 

Some dart vendors online specify the barrel length and diameter, as, well as tungsten content, which might be of help, if you cant get to a shop in person.
Yes its me, I checked in the mirror. 

Current throwing weights of 18 to 24 grams.

Current darts set up :- 23 gram, darts clearance (no name scalloped darts) with a 50 mm barrel, 41 mm nylon shafts + standard flights.
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(11-15-2019, 12:11 PM)Phil D Wrote: I like the sound the black jacks make when they clash (a different sound from most darts) the genesis I think are only about 40 odd percent tungsten, but, throw surprisingly well for me and I like them quite a lot (the genesis in 23 grams, was my go to dart at one point).

I know what you mean about the sound, I have some Monster Wizard darts and love the sound they make when they hit each other.  Whereas I have some Cuesoul Swift which I think sound horrible - really tinny or hollow - and it puts me off using them.  I just remembered the Cuesoul are supposed to be 98% tungsten too, don't know if that is accurate though as I think recently they have stopped advertising them as such.
Bulls NL 501 pyramid grip 24g
L Style flights & stems
Unicorn Volute points
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