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How to prevent bounceouts? (have more room in the treble)
My problem is that when scoring, I get a lot of bounceouts. Not because of sisal quality/dropouts, but the darts bouncing off from each other. It's almost impossible for me to get a 140 let alone a 180, because the darts are covering the whole treble. It's because they land in the board in quite a flat angle, and they don't leave me enough space to fit in another 1 or 2 darts.

https://www.dartscorner.co.uk/product_in...s_id=25348
This is the darts I'm using, quite a thin, straight barrel dart with short(ish) metal stems and standard flights.
I've thought of switching to kites to allow me a slightly better grouping, but I'm afraid the darts would land in even a more awkward angle.

Anyone can offer a bit of advice or help on this issue? I can't see the pros or other players getting nearly as much bounceouts.
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If you can't change the angle with a different setup maybe try some slightly front-loaded darts?

Also there is no shame to switching to the 19's/18's if you have to.
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Would a dart like the Unicorn Kyle Anderson or the Target Dellers possibly help?

Also, I thought maybe a dart with a tapered nose, combined with tridents, could help solve this problem? (my current set has quite a full rounded nose)

I put a link to my current darts into the original post as I forgot to link it when I posted.
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No way to tell for sure without trying, all depends on one's throw.

It might, a smooth transition from point to barrel won't cause you more bounceouts that's for sure.
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(01-28-2017, 07:09 PM)Phenohyte Wrote: My problem is that when scoring, I get a lot of bounceouts. Not because of sisal quality/dropouts, but the darts bouncing off from each other. It's almost impossible for me to get a 140 let alone a 180, because the darts are covering the whole treble. It's because they land in the board in quite a flat angle, and they don't leave me enough space to fit in another 1 or 2 darts.

https://www.dartscorner.co.uk/product_in...s_id=25348
This is the darts I'm using, quite a thin, straight barrel dart with short(ish) metal stems and standard flights.
I've thought of switching to kites to allow me a slightly better grouping, but I'm afraid the darts would land in even a more awkward angle.

Anyone can offer a bit of advice or help on this issue? I can't see the pros or other players getting nearly as much bounceouts.

Spinning stems that do not rattle are probably your best bet in your situation. Even if you hated spinners before, because they rattle, there are some nowadays that do not.  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

I use very slightly modified Harrows Gyros that has never rattled on me. Had an old one over 30 years, and it still didn't rattle. The alloy equivalent of Gyros are the Revolver, which DC is having a sale on right now. It's magnetic, so shouldn't rattle, even though I have yet to try them. Gyros are dirt cheap at 50 p, and Revolvers around 1 GBP with the offer.

Other spinners are the L-Style Carbon (resin composite and carbon), or the Fit Flight Super Duralmin Spinning shafts if you like alloy, and the weight. The standard Super Duralmin is great if you want a heavier shaft, but the slim version is much closer to your normal alloy shaft weight wise. But you will be stuck with expensive flight with the Fit system though.

I also have the Target Pro Grip Spin, but I've not used them long enough for any conclusion yet, other than they break at the threads very easily on bounce outs.

Flights - Go with Pears, not Fantails or Kites as that offers more surface area to the incoming dart. 75 microns, normal or poly, not 'strong' or 'hard'. They can help let your incoming dart slide in. You'll get used to them after awhile. They might even make your stroke better!  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

Really hope this helps, and that you will give spinners and normal pears a try.
NATURAL DARTS? https://www.dartsnutz.net/forum/showthre...?tid=22147

A beginner - always experimenting and learning. Lol! Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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(01-28-2017, 08:45 PM)Ancient Darter Wrote:
(01-28-2017, 07:09 PM)Phenohyte Wrote: My problem is that when scoring, I get a lot of bounceouts. Not because of sisal quality/dropouts, but the darts bouncing off from each other. It's almost impossible for me to get a 140 let alone a 180, because the darts are covering the whole treble. It's because they land in the board in quite a flat angle, and they don't leave me enough space to fit in another 1 or 2 darts.

https://www.dartscorner.co.uk/product_in...s_id=25348
This is the darts I'm using, quite a thin, straight barrel dart with short(ish) metal stems and standard flights.
I've thought of switching to kites to allow me a slightly better grouping, but I'm afraid the darts would land in even a more awkward angle.

Anyone can offer a bit of advice or help on this issue? I can't see the pros or other players getting nearly as much bounceouts.

Spinning stems that do not rattle are probably your best bet in your situation. Even if you hated spinners before, because they rattle, there are some nowadays that do not.  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

I use very slightly modified Harrows Gyros that has never rattled on me. Had an old one over 30 years, and it still didn't rattle. The alloy equivalent of Gyros are the Revolver, which DC is having a sale on right now. It's magnetic, so shouldn't rattle, even though I have yet to try them. Gyros are dirt cheap at 50 p, and Revolvers around 1 GBP with the offer.

Other spinners are the L-Style Carbon (resin composite and carbon), or the Fit Flight Super Duralmin Spinning shafts if you like alloy, and the weight. The standard Super Duralmin is great if you want a heavier shaft, but the slim version is much closer to your normal alloy shaft weight wise. But you will be stuck with expensive flight with the Fit system though.

I also have the Target Pro Grip Spin, but I've not used them long enough for any conclusion yet, other than they break at the threads very easily on bounce outs.

Flights - Go with Pears, not Fantails or Kites as that offers more surface area to the incoming dart. 75 microns, normal or poly, not 'strong' or 'hard'. They can help let your incoming dart slide in. You'll get used to them after awhile. They might even make your stroke better!  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

Really hope this helps, and that you will give spinners and normal pears a try.

Thank you very much for your response mate. I'll surely give the pear flights a go right now, and will buy some spinners as soon as I can Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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In addition to Ancient Darter's excellent advice, had you considered sending your existing darts to one of the custom dart makers (see our sponsors, for instance), and having them put a taper on them that matches whatever points you would like to repoint with?  They could also do the repointing if you sent the points their way with the darts as well.  Just a thought, as why get new darts when a possible slight modification might do the trick?
Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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(01-28-2017, 09:24 PM)Cat Wrote: In addition to Ancient Darter's excellent advice, had you considered sending your existing darts to one of the custom dart makers (see our sponsors, for instance), and having them put a taper on them that matches whatever points you would like to repoint with?  They could also do the repointing if you sent the points their way with the darts as well.  Just a thought, as why get new darts when a possible slight modification might do the trick?

Thank you for the advice, seems like a good idea. Any reckonings how much would it cost, including the postage to the UK?
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(01-28-2017, 07:09 PM)Phenohyte Wrote: My problem is that when scoring, I get a lot of bounceouts. Not because of sisal quality/dropouts, but the darts bouncing off from each other. It's almost impossible for me to get a 140 let alone a 180, because the darts are covering the whole treble. It's because they land in the board in quite a flat angle, and they don't leave me enough space to fit in another 1 or 2 darts.

https://www.dartscorner.co.uk/product_in...s_id=25348
This is the darts I'm using, quite a thin, straight barrel dart with short(ish) metal stems and standard flights.
I've thought of switching to kites to allow me a slightly better grouping, but I'm afraid the darts would land in even a more awkward angle.

Anyone can offer a bit of advice or help on this issue? I can't see the pros or other players getting nearly as much bounceouts.

As someone who likes their darts to lie reasonably flat also, I find that spinning stems help if you don't want to change the angle. If you can tolerate them landing slightly upwards, nylon stems could help as the flights (if not secured too hard) can pop off if they get too in the way, helping with grouping. Spinning nylon stems also exist. Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

"And the devil did grin; for his darling sin is pride that apes humility." - Samuel Taylor Coleridge

Current setup:

Cosmo Juggler Queen 2nd 400 (18g) + One80 Reflex conversion points
Cosmo Carbon #8 locked stem
Cosmo Fit Flight Juggler yellow (ocean design)

High checkout: 124 (T20, T14, D11, steeltip)
Best 501 leg: 20 darts
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Your darts are similar width to my Taylor Phase 1-3 darts and I've had no problems fitting all 3 in the treble, even with the rounded nose.  I will say though that my C13s with a more tapered nose can group significantly tighter than the Taylors (if I throw them right).

My first suggestion would be 75 micron standard flights if you're currently using 100 micron.  I like 75 micron flights much, much more than 100 micron flights (and I can tell the difference in thickness) because they make my darts a little bit faster and the flights bend more.

If you don't need the point-barrel join as a datum then yeah Tridents or Storm points may help, empirically I didn't notice any more deflections when I replaced the Storms in my Phase 3s with regular Unicorn points.  I have used spinning stems (Cosmo, Clic, SuperGrip Pro Grip) extensively as well, I am not a fan but that is just me.  Of the lot I tried, I liked the Pro Grips because they didn't rattle and, well, I am a big Pro Grip fan anyway...  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

Also do you overstack or understack usually?  I am an overstacker whose darts lie in at a 5-10 degree angle.  If I stick a dart anywhere close to the top wire of the T20, I head for cover.  174 is just as good as a 180 in my book.

All the best mate, you have some good suggestions here!
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(01-28-2017, 09:35 PM)Kosumo Wrote:
(01-28-2017, 07:09 PM)Phenohyte Wrote: My problem is that when scoring, I get a lot of bounceouts. Not because of sisal quality/dropouts, but the darts bouncing off from each other. It's almost impossible for me to get a 140 let alone a 180, because the darts are covering the whole treble. It's because they land in the board in quite a flat angle, and they don't leave me enough space to fit in another 1 or 2 darts.

https://www.dartscorner.co.uk/product_in...s_id=25348
This is the darts I'm using, quite a thin, straight barrel dart with short(ish) metal stems and standard flights.
I've thought of switching to kites to allow me a slightly better grouping, but I'm afraid the darts would land in even a more awkward angle.

Anyone can offer a bit of advice or help on this issue? I can't see the pros or other players getting nearly as much bounceouts.

As someone who likes their darts to lie reasonably flat also, I find that spinning stems help if you don't want to change the angle. If you can tolerate them landing slightly upwards, nylon stems could help as the flights (if not secured too hard) can pop off if they get too in the way, helping with grouping. Spinning nylon stems also exist. Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

I should have mentioned I usually use nylon stems, but run out of them 2 weeks ago so switched to metals and they fly decent enough. I would prefer my darts landing more upwards, as it could help with grouping, I think.
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(01-28-2017, 09:46 PM)wongerchi Wrote: Your darts are similar width to my Taylor Phase 1-3 darts and I've had no problems fitting all 3 in the treble, even with the rounded nose.  I will say though that my C13s with a more tapered nose can group significantly tighter than the Taylors (if I throw them right).

My first suggestion would be 75 micron standard flights if you're currently using 100 micron.  I like 75 micron flights much, much more than 100 micron flights (and I can tell the difference in thickness) because they make my darts a little bit faster and the flights bend more.

If you don't need the point-barrel join as a datum then yeah Tridents or Storm points may help, empirically I didn't notice any more deflections when I replaced the Storms in my Phase 3s with regular Unicorn points.  I have used spinning stems (Cosmo, Clic, SuperGrip Pro Grip) extensively as well, I am not a fan but that is just me.  Of the lot I tried, I liked the Pro Grips because they didn't rattle and, well, I am a big Pro Grip fan anyway...  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

Also do you overstack or understack usually?  I am an overstacker whose darts lie in at a 5-10 degree angle.  If I stick a dart anywhere close to the top wire of the T20, I head for cover.  174 is just as good as a 180 in my book.

All the best mate, you have some good suggestions here!

To be honest, I've never given much thought to how thick my flights are. I just use a random standard and switch often. Will try the 75 micron flights, as well as the spinning stems. Cheers for the advice Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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Have you tried the smaller size standard shape, such as the Harrow marathon flights, or McCoy flights? They're great if you like the standard shape but less deflections
First 180: 19/3/2015
Best leg 501: 12 darts (11/4/16)
Back after a hiatus, getting over dartitis 
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(01-28-2017, 09:29 PM)Phenohyte Wrote:
(01-28-2017, 09:24 PM)Cat Wrote: In addition to Ancient Darter's excellent advice, had you considered sending your existing darts to one of the custom dart makers (see our sponsors, for instance), and having them put a taper on them that matches whatever points you would like to repoint with?  They could also do the repointing if you sent the points their way with the darts as well.  Just a thought, as why get new darts when a possible slight modification might do the trick?

Thank you for the advice, seems like a good idea. Any reckonings how much would it cost, including the postage to the UK?
I think it is on a "by job" basis, and if you are on my side of the pond (USA)contact also Hand on Darts, as they are in this country.  Describing what you want -putting a taper on existing darts and repointing them should be fairly easy to do via email, and then make your decision based on price and the quality of your interactions with the two sources.  Also you might post a new thread asking -which one did you go to and what did you think-or check existing threads about that topic.

Edit:  I see you are from Budapest...my bad....email Madhouse-always good interactions with them according to the members who have done biz with them.
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(01-28-2017, 09:55 PM)Phenohyte Wrote: I should have mentioned I usually use nylon stems, but run out of them 2 weeks ago so switched to metals and they fly decent enough. I would prefer my darts landing more upwards, as it could help with grouping, I think.

Nylon stems will help this. I would suggest getting some more! Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

"And the devil did grin; for his darling sin is pride that apes humility." - Samuel Taylor Coleridge

Current setup:

Cosmo Juggler Queen 2nd 400 (18g) + One80 Reflex conversion points
Cosmo Carbon #8 locked stem
Cosmo Fit Flight Juggler yellow (ocean design)

High checkout: 124 (T20, T14, D11, steeltip)
Best 501 leg: 20 darts
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