Shot Darts

A question concerning standing at the oche
Hello all,

I apologize if my question has been covered before but I've not managed to locate a definitive answer.  I understand that both feet must remain behind the oche when shooting, however I've not been able to find anything about if a player is allowed stand away from the oche.

My reason for asking is that I've found my darts land at a better angle in relation to the board if I stand around 30cm - 45cm behind the oche.  If I stand at the line, the darts enter with an angle below 0 degrees, even with medium stems and MaxAir flights.  However, moving backwards a little results in 5-15 degrees of upwards angle on the darts.

Standing back from the oche doesn't seem to affect the grouping of my shots nor my accuracy, which are still improving after only a week of practice.  Also, I have not experienced any difficulties reaching the upper half of the board, including the D20.

If I must stand at the oche, might there be something else that would allow me to still have the desired angle of entry?

Thanks in advance
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I know of no rule against standing farther behind the oche, just that you can't toss darts that count if you cross the oche on your throw before releasing your dart. To address how your darts are entering the board, I suggest trying other stem and flight configurations. There is no "one size fits all" solution here since everybody's throw is individual to that person.
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I don't know of a rule stating that you must stand directly at the oche. The oche is obviously the minimum but as far as a maximum, I'm honestly unsure. As far as the angle of entry for your darts, shaft length and flight size will help with that. A larger flight will generate more lift and/or drag, while shaft length will change the center of gravity. Shorter will push it forward, longer will pull it back from center, respectively, that is. Where you grip the dart will have an effect on that, as well. That's my experience, anyway. You will really just have to try different combinations until you find the one that works for you. It can be different for everyone. What works for you may not for me and vice versa. I can't throw my father-n-law's darts for anything. Then again, he throws darts like a carnie throws a knife! He should be in the circus! Hope this helps and good luck to you!
- Red

Current Favorite:
Unicorn James Wade Phase 1 (20g)---Short Nylon/Poly Shafts---Marathon/No.6 Shape Flights  

Board:
Winmau Blade 5
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Best me to it, Gumbo! LOL!
- Red

Current Favorite:
Unicorn James Wade Phase 1 (20g)---Short Nylon/Poly Shafts---Marathon/No.6 Shape Flights  

Board:
Winmau Blade 5
Reply
(01-04-2017, 05:30 AM)gumbo2176 Wrote: I know of no rule against standing farther behind the oche, just that you can't toss darts that count if you cross the oche on your throw before releasing your dart.  To address how your darts are entering the board, I suggest trying other stem and flight configurations.   There is no "one size fits all" solution here since everybody's throw is individual to that person.

Thanks for the reply and advice Gumbo2176.  I've tried extra short, short, and medium stems as well as a variety of flights (slims, dimplex slims, fantails, standards, and MaxAir).  So far, the combination of medium stems with the MaxAir flights have done the best for me.  I'm still experimenting with the various combinations and am looking around the local area to see what I can find to add to the mix.
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(01-04-2017, 05:42 AM)Red Wrote: I don't know of a rule stating that you must stand directly at the oche.  The oche is obviously the minimum but as far as a maximum, I'm honestly unsure.  As far as the angle of entry for your darts, shaft length and flight size will help with that.  A larger flight will generate more lift and/or drag, while shaft length will change the center of gravity. Shorter will push it forward, longer will pull it back from center, respectively, that is.  Where you grip the dart will have an effect on that, as well.   That's my experience, anyway.   You will really just have to try different combinations until you find the one that works for you.  It can be different for everyone.  What works for you may not for me and vice versa.  I can't throw my father-n-law's darts for anything.  Then again, he throws darts like a carnie throws a knife!  He should be in the circus!  Hope this helps and good luck to you!

Thanks for the reply Red.  I've noticed I naturally tend to grip the dart towards the rear.  I'll revisit the extra short shafts again to see if moving the center of gravity might help.  I didn't have a very long trial period with those.  I broke one of my extra short shafts when a dart collided with another dart already occupying the same spot on the board.  Such is the price of progress!
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The issue i would have with standing further back would be replicating the distance every time, yes it would be easy done at home with a mark on the floor but if you go to any other board it could become an issue...You might think at this point 'sure what does a cm or 2 matter here or there' but if you think how fat the treble is, it could make all the difference when you start really homeing in on the red bit.

I would keep playing around with the set ups to see if you can get something to better suit throwing from the oche...good luck buddy and keep us updated
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(01-04-2017, 10:07 AM)hamo Wrote: The issue i would have with standing further back would be replicating the distance every time, yes it would be easy done at home with a mark on the floor but if you go to any other board it could become an issue...You might think at this point 'sure what does a cm or 2 matter here or there' but if you think how fat the treble is, it could make all the difference when you start really homeing in on the red bit.

I would keep playing around with the set ups to see if you can get something to better suit throwing from the oche...good luck buddy and keep us updated

Hamo,

Thanks for the reply. The variance in distance could prove to be a problem.  While I've "eyed" the distance, I've not done much to maintain a consistent distance.  I'll work on that while I continue working with stem/flight combos .
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I'd echo hamo's thoughts, in that playing from a different distance early on is maybe not the best place to start. however, I fully appreciate your dilemma. I started off throwing a set of 21g Colin Lloyd darts. They worked great for the first 6 months and I thought I'd got really lucky in finding my preferred set straight off the bat.

Then something must have changed with my throw as my darts were also landing in the board with the flights pointed towards the floor. Not Phil Taylor style, but "cover up half the bed with a flight" style. i also experimented with larger flights and different length stems, and also tried the maxair flights, but it was all to minimal effect.

Annoyingly for me it resulted in a change of barrels, and the issue disappeared overnight. I still go back and try the old Lloyds to see how they go, but its never a good experience!

Good luck with the testing, but it may end up needing the more expensive part of your dart set up to be replaced!
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(01-04-2017, 03:28 PM)NickB Wrote: I'd echo hamo's thoughts, in that playing from a different distance early on is maybe not the best place to start.  however, I fully appreciate your dilemma.  I started off throwing a set of 21g Colin Lloyd darts.  They worked great for the first 6 months and I thought I'd got really lucky in finding my preferred set straight off the bat.

Then something must have changed with my throw as my darts were also landing in the board with the flights pointed towards the floor.  Not Phil Taylor style, but "cover up half the bed with a flight" style.  i also experimented with larger flights and different length stems, and also tried the maxair flights, but it was all to minimal effect.

Annoyingly for me it resulted in a change of barrels, and the issue disappeared overnight.  I still go back and try the old Lloyds to see how they go, but its never a good experience!

Good luck with the testing, but it may end up needing the more expensive part of your dart set up to be replaced!

NickB,

Thanks for sharing your experiences with low angle dart landings. Would you mind sharing what types of changes you made in regards to your barrels that resulted in improved landings?  I realize every player's case will be different.  I'm just looking for options to consider.

While I'm not necessarily in a hurry to purchase another set of darts, I must confess I've already been looking over the great variety of options available these days.  And some of the offerings have caught my eye.

I'm enjoying this first set of darts but I've already concluded they're likely not "the ones" for me.  Not as a result of the angle issue, but because I find the knurled grip of the Silver Arrows to be too slippery in my grip at the moment.  However, my grip stills needs quite a bit of refinement.  I've only been throwing for week after all!

Again, I appreciate everyone taking the time to offer advice and help.  Any other ideas or experiences would be appreciated.  I'll try to stand at the oche and see if there are other elements that could be changed to rectify the situation.
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I always look to the pro's and they are cuzzy up to the oche. I'd say to work on it from the oche till you get it right because why not throw closer to the board than further from it?
It's like beginning a race standing back from the start line. I'd use what advantage the game gives you.
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Nick, I wouldn't be too quick on purchasing another set of darts. If you've only been throwing for a week, that is a drop in the bucket to improvement and consistency in your game. Also, IF you do get new darts, I have found there is what is commonly known as a "Honeymoon Period" where you can't miss with the things and you think you've found Nirvana. Then as quickly as they found their mark, they start spraying the board and your darts start to look like cow patties in a pasture------they are all over the place.

Give what you have a chance to work out for you with different stems and flights and make sure you are keeping a consistent stroke and release. I guarantee it isn't just the darts that need tweaking.
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(01-04-2017, 05:40 PM)SlingBlade Wrote: I always look to the pro's and they are cuzzy up to the oche. I'd say to work on it from the oche till you get it right because why not throw closer to the board than further from it?
It's like beginning a race standing back from the start line. I'd use what advantage the game gives you.

SlingBlade,
Thanks for your input.  I've only watched a few videos of darts players.  And as you said, they're always at the oche.  That was what made me start looking for any rules specifying a player must stand at the oche.  When I couldn't find any, I asked the question.

I agree its best to take every advantage offered by the game.  And with the way I've been throwing, sometimes all three darts in a tight group in a single bed and other times the aforementioned cow patties, I need every advantage I can get.

(01-04-2017, 05:40 PM)gumbo2176 Wrote: Nick, I wouldn't be too quick on purchasing another set of darts.    If you've only been throwing for a week, that is a drop in the bucket to improvement and consistency in your game.     Also, IF you do get new darts, I have found there is what is commonly known as a "Honeymoon Period" where you can't miss with the things and you think you've found Nirvana.    Then as quickly as they found their mark, they start spraying the board and your darts start to look like cow patties in a pasture------they are all over the place.

Give what you have a chance to work out for you with different stems and flights and make sure you are keeping a consistent stroke and release.   I guarantee it isn't just the darts that need tweaking.

Gumbo2176,

As you correctly noted, it isn't just the darts that need tweaking.  Out of curiosity, what's an average time for a player's throw to stabilize?  I realize its different for every person, but is there a general time frame one can consider a "break in" period?
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(01-05-2017, 05:20 AM)BJC Wrote: [quote pid='357876' dateline='1483548006']

Gumbo2176,

As you correctly noted, it isn't just the darts that need tweaking.  Out of curiosity, what's an average time for a player's throw to stabilize?  I realize its different for every person, but is there a general time frame one can consider a "break in" period?

[/quote]

That is a tough one to answer because like you have said, everybody has a different style, learning curve, rate of progression, etc.

I picked up the game fairly quickly when I first started playing, but I have always been good at sports and other competitive things, especially ones that involved throwing with a fair amount of accuracy.  Then there's people like my lovely wife who no matter how long they try to play, they will never achieve a higher level than beginner since it looks as though they struggle to get the darts to the board with an erratic style of throw.

If I had to go out on a limb, and if you have a decent throw to begin with, I'd say a couple months time of good practice sessions combined with playing against others should allow you to see marked improvement.   But like the disclaimer you often hear at the ends of commercials on TV---"Your results may vary."   seems to be a safe out.
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