Double Top Darts.

Completely reworking my throw/grip/stance
Not sure in what section I was gonna post this but all advice is appreciated so I guess I'll post it here. There's a TLDR; at the bottom Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

So 3 days ago I decided to completely scrap my current throw and start anew because I was not happy with how I was playing, I was just frustrating myself every time I played a game of 501. Albeit I was hitting quite a lot of 180's the last few weeks I got more and more frustrated by the many misses in between. It was the same story every leg: loads of 12's and 18's and 45,41,26,22,7,11,etc. etc. My throw just had too many things that could go wrong.

I'll try to describe my old one:

I am left eye dominant and (I thought) the only way to properly aim was to start my throw from somewhere near that eye.
This caused for my entire body to not be aligned.
I was standing very straight with the right foot pointing towards the board.
Elbow was aligned with should but my hand was to the left of it (bit like Gary Anderson).
The dart was against my face and the point directed towards the roof else I couldn't get enough force behind my throw because my arm was not far back enough.

The starting point of my throw from my perspective:
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I also wanted to change the grip to a more solid one as I felt I wasn't releasing very cleanly . My old grip:
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The main thing that I was worried about was how I was going to aim, I tried throwing from the right side of my head before occasionally but I just couldn't aim. Some WDA match that got recommended to me on youtube convinced me to try something else, so thanks Rattlesnake whoever you might be (perhaps a member on here?) Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.




SO... I went into this with a mindset that if I was going to teach a nice throw to a completely new person who will listen to everything I say, how would I approach this?

Stand sideways, entire right side of my foot against the oche.
Throw starting from somewhere near my right cheek.
Shoulder-elbow-hand in one line.
No extra wrist movement by tying to have the point point to the board.
A nice follow through.
A solid grip.


Well I starting trying to do all these things and in the beginning I couldn't aim whatsoever... Surprisingly I soon started to get the hang of it though.
Of course I had to try every single dart I owned again and right now I'm sticking to my 23g Barneys with big wings and short stems as they feel the best.

A pic of my current grip:
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Here's a slo-mo of my new throw (sorry for the bad quality, my phone struggles with slo-mo in low light conditions). Would have loved to have an angle from my left but unfortunately there's a wall there. Would have uploaded my old one too but I'm going to stay away from that way of throwing else I might fall back into old habits.



Don't think it's perfect but at least it's better than my old one. The thing I struggle with most is my new grip/release, it takes some warming up to find that sweet spot and to replicate the same clean release. I think this gets better the more I play though. But everything apart from the grip feels very easy and natural now. Easier than my old one perhaps.

The last 2 days I mainly did some A1 and a few games of round the board and already noticing improvements. It's a bit soon to say but I feel I am now at the same level I was with my old throw already, a lot more consistent with this throw that's for sure. Grouping is good (when thrown properly better than my old throw), hitting much less 1's and 5's and almost zero 18's and 12's where with my old throw that was not uncommon. Doubles going well so far too but only played a handful legs of 501 and wasn't under much pressure either.

And I already had some success today Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images. Never thought I would hit a 180 so soon when I decided to chang my throw 3 days ago!
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Any advice would be appreciated and I thank you for taking the time to read through all my ramblings Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

TLDR; Completely new throw: You like? Y/N?
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How does the dart look to be flying for you? Results aside do you like how it kicks?
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(12-02-2016, 08:32 PM)Steve_00 Wrote: How does the dart look to be flying for you? Results aside do you like how it kicks?


With a clean release they fly very nice, always land in the same angle and it just feels very solid.
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I'm only a beginner but I'd say job's a good'un then! Personally I find that a 3 finger grip makes my wrist twist slightly on release so I use my ring finger to stabilise under the point and sort of lock my wrist in place, once I started doing that they flew much straighter and with no iffy spin or fishtailing. That picture shows more 180's than I've ever hit though so take my musings with a pinch of salt Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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I admire your courage for starting from scratch and hope it continues to work for you, over time I have tried many different grips, standing positions and equipment.
Pretty much you name it I've tried it yet I've virtually ended up where I started, straight barrels, medium stems and standard flights
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Current Board 
Gladiator 3 with Corona Surround and Unicorn number ring
Darts
Modified Unicorn Striker with RD medium sparkle stems, hardcore black flights, Voks Tornado points and Target titanium stem rings   

Playing 40 years on and off and still barely average
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I agree very courageous to undertake a total overhaul. 
Seems like it's working so far so great work.

It might be the light but I did notice your drawback seems to pull your elbow up and slightly right. may not be an issue just calling what I see. 



I have gone through the overhaul myself and it takes time and patience. I think a good test of the overhaul progress is to not throw for a day or two. When you get back to the board grab your darts and just throw the first 3 as naturally as you can. Don't think about those 3 darts, don't be concerned with how they fly or how they land. Video tape it and see how it stacks up against the action you are trying to hone.

Good luck bud, keep us posted.
There Are No Heroes, Only Warriors
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Thanks for the kind words and advice guys, luckily when I really put my mind to something I will usually make it happen Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

More than three fingers just doesn't work for me Steve, thanks for the input though. Probably 80% of people who have never hit a 180 can still beat me though so it doesn't mean anything Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

And yeah Kiwi I think I do pull it up a little, will try to keep an eye on it next time. Also won't be able to play much this Sunday and Monday so I wonder how I'll pick up the darts Monday eve/Tuesday.
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Ayup Joe

Nice repetative arm action, seems as tho your heads moving back on release.

Shed
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Looking good and kudos for taking such a bold step!

One thing I would say is be careful with a stance that places your lead foot flat against the oche as you may find the extra rotation puts a strain on your shoulder. If it isn't then keep going.

I'm not really into the technical aspects so I won't comment other than to say it looks nice and smooth!

Darts: Harrows Glen Durrant Duzza Series 2 24g, short Harrows Supergrip shafts, Harrows flights (Marathon/Retina/Optix/Rapide) 


Best 501: 13 darts (League), 14 darts (Pro Darter)

Best Checkout: 154 (League), 160 (Pro Darter)
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(12-02-2016, 10:39 PM)Shed inn Wrote: Ayup Joe

Nice repetative arm action, seems as tho your heads moving back on release.

Shed

Cheers Shed, will try to keep it still.


(12-02-2016, 11:17 PM)Banz Wrote: Looking good and kudos for taking such a bold step!

One thing I would say is be careful with a stance that places your lead foot flat against the oche as you may find the extra rotation puts a strain on your shoulder. If it isn't then keep going.

I'm not really into the technical aspects so I won't comment other than to say it looks nice and smooth!

Thanks Banz. Yeah my arm does get tired a bit faster now, mainly the the shoulder indeed. It's not uncomfortable or painful, just fatigue. Think this will go away over time as my muscles get used to this throw.
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Yeah I was thinking also that it is a brave thing to undertake as one who had no choice but to rebuild my throw I found many times little things that worked well but I would often have to change again due to some ache or other problem.

I do think standing side on is probably best but I cant do it without it hurting my knee so I made compromises.

Looking at your video though it looks very good to me, and consistency is good too.

I experimented last night with a slight change of grip as I still think my grip is the cause of a lot of miscued darts so I decided to grip it like I hold a pen which is what I have tried in the past but it never felt right. I gave it a proper go and within about 15 mins I was hitting a lot more T20's than usual, so I tried it again this afternoon and was immediately getting close or in the T20.

But when I try throwing around the board for some reason it goes all over the place which is weird, I cant hit the doubles or the trebles as well with the same grip, so I am not sure if I should continue with it or may be have 2 grip styles but its just another thing I have found that makes darts interesting to me, its kind of a discovery about yourself as much as anything.

Hope your new style works out well for you though, it sounds good so far Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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Cheers Darren, hope you'll settle on a grip that works for you Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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Cheers!
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(12-03-2016, 03:17 PM)Getagrip Wrote: But when I try throwing around the board for some reason it goes all over the place which is weird, I cant hit the doubles or the trebles as well with the same grip, so I am not sure if I should continue with it or may be have 2 grip styles but its just another thing I have found that makes darts interesting to me, its kind of a discovery about yourself as much as anything.
I think it's worth continuing for a little while longer. It's possible that the reason you're not hitting the doubles and triples is not anything to do with the new grip being bad, but everything to do with your hand-eye coordination needing to learn the new way with the new grip.
Give it a little more time to see if you can feel any improvement.

As a fellow right handed left eye dominant geezer, I also stand 90 degree angle to the board. That seems to be the most natural way. The OP may find that useful too. I'm confused about how it would be hurting your knee though, Darren? Perhaps leaning slightly to the right?

At the moment I'm working on keeping on body almost motionless except for the motion of the forearm. I think it produces decent results, but sometimes when I try to aim other parts of my body want to join in.
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Hi mate I had to change my whole stance, threw etc after a collar cuff tear with my darts starting from the floor and gradually working my way up the wall to the dart board painful and infuriating for 6mths, but you get there and soon it becomes comfortable. Also you explore more and not afraid to try new techniques. One thing I did notice is when you take your next dart your left arm moves to meet your right hand to collect the dart, this is causing you to rock forward a little and become a little less balanced in the upper body. I tuck my forearm in to my waist and make my dart arm come to the best place to take the dart of my fingers and not having the other hand probing for the dart and it keeps my head and shoulder aligned. Keep experimenting.
Darts used 25g Adrian Gray Tungsten Shot Flights XLt Stems
Best Av (Singles) : 84
Best 501 : 15 darts
Highest Checkout 2016 : 160 (T20 T20 D20)
180s Practice  2019 : 100+
180s Comp 2019 : 10 
150s Practice : 3
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