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Need advice
Need advice folks if you'd wouldn't mind. I only started playing darts 2 years ago tried a few cheap sets to start with. Then my cousin gave me a set of 24g wade phase 1's used them for about 7 months was really starting to play well. Then I started changing darts. I have tried winstanleys, buntings, andos Lewis gen 3, Hankey, cx2 cortex plus cheap darts all 23-25g and I just can't get my form back I even went back to my wades and I was completely missing the board

I am thinking I know I have to pick a set and stick with them but nothing seems to feel right I was going to try the carrera c4 24g as a one last shot and just stick with them but wanted to get some opinions first!!

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Shane
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I guess visuals could help.  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

Close up shots of your grip? A video of your stroke?
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A beginner - always experimenting and learning. Lol! Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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are your current darts slipping when you throw?i used my bristow ringed dart for ages,but as a mechanic my hands are dry and they would sometimes slip.the most important reason i bought c4s were for the grip they have,they work for me,no more slip.most dart nutz buy darts because we love darts,but most practice and stick with one set .for me the c4s were a progression of my bristow darts..i would have bought them years ago if they were around then.just a thought...
target carrera 24 gr c4s target titanium/ carbon stems,.target vision  flights
harrows bristow 24gr natural ringed,24g gold
harrows bristow 24gr cocked hand
harrows powerpoint 24gr vintage 1994
blade 4 board
ales and nails,BEER IN ACTION
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Sorry first photo didn't load, this is my start point.


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
   
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(08-03-2016, 10:08 PM)gtauto Wrote: are your current darts slipping when you throw?i used my bristow ringed dart for ages,but as a mechanic my hands are dry and they would sometimes slip.the most important reason i bought c4s were for the grip they have,they work for me,no more slip.most dart nutz buy darts because we love darts,but most practice and stick with one set .for me the c4s were a progression of my bristow darts..i would have bought them years ago if they were around then.just a thought...

Em slipping a little bit but more flicking off to right. I am right handed and stand far to the left hit a lot of 1's but not many 5's also find lately I am letting go too early and pulling the dart really low..
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My first thought is that since you were playing well with the Wade Phase 1s, go back to them and throw nothing else until your form comes back. Your form isn't likely to come back with repeated changes, so go with what once worked best.

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Thanks for the photos Smithshane, but without a clear video that can be slowed down, it's anyone's guess, and I'll go with what Berlin said, except that none of us will know why it's still not working out with your Wade P1s.

Here's goes anything ... Oh boy!

Going by two thing you said, I sat, I held my darts the way your did, swung them back and forth, and threw them. From previous attempts, I knew that I had to do a very 'clean, straight throw', as opposed to my usual spin and it worked in the sense that the darts went fairly straight, and grouped, but was low as I'm not practiced with this grip technique. 

Then I watched Part's slo-mo throw, both the PDC Darts one as well as the Japanese one analyzing his throw.

And I thought of the other thing you said, "I roll my dart back".

Several things that may help, or may seem like absolute rubbish to you or anyone else, but I'll try.

The only thing I have to go on is Part's stroke, since you said you started off like that (no video so no one can see what you're actually doing). The reason why I'm proceeding like this may or may not seem clear right now ... but see if this makes any sense to you after you're read everything and thought about it (and watch both videos).

1. Part's video. His grip, and back swing has no perceptible finger twisting movement on his back-stroke. As he goes past the vertical on the back stroke, he starts clenching his hands, but there's still no perceptible rotation from the Japanese video.

2. You said you roll your darts, and I think that's where it falls apart. The reason might be the way you grip your darts - and your roll back - it may not be conducive to a good flight pattern as I suspect you're imparting opposing forces and torque.

Part's grip style is similar to throwing a rock - straight and narrow with no twists, except he does the double-pump, and that seems to work. If you look from the back, his flight path also seems to be very straight. His darts hardly fishtails. It porpoises, yes, but even then not very much. Porpoising seems to happen with many players, but a vertical group is far less worse that a horizontal one, and can be more easily corrected. Porpoising is less of a problem due to the design of the darts/huge flights (relative to the darts).

3. If you look at his release, it's very clean - he simply spreads his hand apart, they way a child who wants to throw a rock, (before he sees other people's style and tries to follow it).

Straightforward.


And towards the end of his release, he brings his fingers together, and follow through. His finger/hand posture is (and don't ever tell him this if you see him!) ... similar to a lady who offers her hands to be kissed. On his follow through - classic palm faced parallel to the ground. Many players are all over the place, including myself!  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

The reason why I'm taking apart Part's stroke is I think you might be emulating a kinda of 'straight-forward stone throw' to some extent as your grip is probably only suited for that style of technique (again, no video Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images. ), but adding that roll to the dart seem to counter-act the concept of 'straight-forwardness'. Hence, the flicking or inaccuracies etc. 

This is all based on hypothesis.

Sorry mate, without a clear video, it's anyone's guess, and while I hope this helps, it may also be absolutely wrong (since no one can see what you're doing during your stroke ... without a clear video). I hope I haven't ragged you too much about the need for a clear video?  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

IN SHORT: Stop rolling and twisting, and keep everything as straight as possible, and open up your hands cleanly as you release, and see how that works for a few days or a week or so.

Do exaggerated grip and release movements while stroking many times over to get used to it, and aso for muscle memory. 

Make it seems almost 'clinical' if that description helps you visualize it.    C - L - E - A - N .

If you want, get into your actual stance and do that. Yeah ... 'phantom throw' - I know ... but while many get irritated at the thought of it, it actually serves a purpose - mental/actual visualization, and muscle memory. 

It will take some getting used to, but at least try if you can. 

Either that, or change your grip technique entirely, which is a lot more difficult and will take much longer, but can also reap huge rewards (aka, Tiger Woods' form).

If any of this sounds like nonsense, just let me know and I won't waste bandwidth. No offense at all mate!  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.



REF YouTube:
1) PDC Darts WM 2012 - Anderson, Whitlock & others slow motion dart throw posted by StreetmusicVideos1
2) John Part's Throw posted by Cracking Darts
NATURAL DARTS? https://www.dartsnutz.net/forum/showthre...?tid=22147

A beginner - always experimenting and learning. Lol! Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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(08-04-2016, 09:30 PM)Ancient Darter Wrote: Thanks for the photos Smithshane, but without a clear video that can be slowed down, it's anyone's guess, and I'll go with what Berlin said, except that none of us will know why it's still not working out with your Wade P1s.

Here's goes anything ... Oh boy!

Going by two thing you said, I sat, I held my darts the way your did, swung them back and forth, and threw them. From previous attempts, I knew that I had to do a very 'clean, straight throw', as opposed to my usual spin and it worked in the sense that the darts went fairly straight, and grouped, but was low as I'm not practiced with this grip technique. 

Then I watched Part's slo-mo throw, both the PDC Darts one as well as the Japanese one analyzing his throw.

And I thought of the other thing you said, "I roll my dart back".

Several things that may help, or may seem like absolute rubbish to you or anyone else, but I'll try.

The only thing I have to go on is Part's stroke, since you said you started off like that (no video so no one can see what you're actually doing). The reason why I'm proceeding like this may or may not seem clear right now ... but see if this makes any sense to you after you're read everything and thought about it (and watch both videos).

1. Part's video. His grip, and back swing has no perceptible finger twisting movement on his back-stroke. As he goes past the vertical on the back stroke, he starts clenching his hands, but there's still no perceptible rotation from the Japanese video.

2. You said you roll your darts, and I think that's where it falls apart. The reason might be the way you grip your darts - and your roll back - it may not be conducive to a good flight pattern as I suspect you're imparting opposing forces and torque.

Part's grip style is similar to throwing a rock - straight and narrow with no twists, except he does the double-pump, and that seems to work. If you look from the back, his flight path also seems to be very straight. His darts hardly fishtails. It porpoises, yes, but even then not very much. Porpoising seems to happen with many players, but a vertical group is far less worse that a horizontal one, and can be more easily corrected. Porpoising is less of a problem due to the design of the darts/huge flights (relative to the darts).

3. If you look at his release, it's very clean - he simply spreads his hand apart, they way a child who wants to throw a rock, (before he sees other people's style and tries to follow it).

Straightforward.


And towards the end of his release, he brings his fingers together, and follow through. His finger/hand posture is (and don't ever tell him this if you see him!) ... similar to a lady who offers her hands to be kissed. On his follow through - classic palm faced parallel to the ground. Many players are all over the place, including myself!  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

The reason why I'm taking apart Part's stroke is I think you might be emulating a kinda of 'straight-forward stone throw' to some extent as your grip is probably only suited for that style of technique (again, no video Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images. ), but adding that roll to the dart seem to counter-act the concept of 'straight-forwardness'. Hence, the flicking or inaccuracies etc. 

This is all based on hypothesis.

Sorry mate, without a clear video, it's anyone's guess, and while I hope this helps, it may also be absolutely wrong (since no one can see what you're doing during your stroke ... without a clear video). I hope I haven't ragged you too much about the need for a clear video?  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

IN SHORT: Stop rolling and twisting, and keep everything as straight as possible, and open up your hands cleanly as you release, and see how that works for a few days or a week or so.

Do exaggerated grip and release movements while stroking many times over to get used to it, and aso for muscle memory. 

Make it seems almost 'clinical' if that description helps you visualize it.    C - L - E - A - N .

If you want, get into your actual stance and do that. Yeah ... 'phantom throw' - I know ... but while many get irritated at the thought of it, it actually serves a purpose - mental/actual visualization, and muscle memory. 

It will take some getting used to, but at least try if you can. 

Either that, or change your grip technique entirely, which is a lot more difficult and will take much longer, but can also reap huge rewards (aka, Tiger Woods' form).

If any of this sounds like nonsense, just let me know and I won't waste bandwidth. No offense at all mate!  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.



REF YouTube:
1) PDC Darts WM 2012 - Anderson, Whitlock & others slow motion dart throw posted by StreetmusicVideos1
2) John Part's Throw posted by Cracking Darts

Okay first off thank you so much for taking the time to go in to so much detail. Def +1.

I will record a video and get it because I think you are hinting for 1 lol. It'll be tomorrow evening before I have 1 tho! 

I will watch these videos and let you know any questions Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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Aye SmithShane ... no one knows what you're doing during your throw. Err ... it's not that I want the video, but ... how are any of us going to help you if we cant see anything?  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

Anyways, do have a read and think ... and the Japanese video is especially revealing.  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
NATURAL DARTS? https://www.dartsnutz.net/forum/showthre...?tid=22147

A beginner - always experimenting and learning. Lol! Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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Haha I understand what your saying. I really appreciate the help. Thank you.
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