Trying to fix bad grip habits

[Charlie Sears]

I began playing darts without knowing much more than stand behind the scotch tape line and throw and TRY to hit the board. Never even pointed for cricket, played first to close everything, no double out on X01 either.

I developed a pretty crap grip and throw making up for my lack of energy to get the darts I was using to the board.

I would hold the dart with 2 fingers and thumb on the very tips of my fingers. Right before release I'd use my fingers and occasionally elbow to lift the dart higher. This of course is super inconsistent and really killing my practice trying to eliminate it.

When I go to grab a dart now, this is still my natural grip and throw.

How have any of you fixed grip faults and found a new grip? Ive been practicing A1 with different grips and after an hour everything I try still feels off.

Here's some photos showing how I hold the dart now, I'm still waiting on non brass darts to come in the mail Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

And of course how my fingers lift the dart up on release:
Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

[Pac]

Wow, thats a very sweet grip.
Do you feel like no control at throw?
My grip seems like yours but more into front zone, and using more flesh.

[Charlie Sears]

Wow, thats a very sweet grip.
Do you feel like no control at throw?
My grip seems like yours but more into front zone, and using more flesh.

I'm having a lot of trouble with my fingers coming off slightly after my thumb leading to a ton of wobble on probably 50% of my throws.

I tried this dart in the front, mid, and back. It feels so much better from the rear with the longer shaft.

That'll all go out the window when I'm no longer throwing cheap brass. I still want to work on some arm consistency while I wait for my shipment.

The grip seems to be killing me, adding a ton of drift and wobble, that and some growing elbow pain Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.. Or am I off base trying to change it and I should stick with it and work on relaxing more consistently with this natural grip?

I should note my natural throw was very low, elbow pointing down and out to the right. I've corrected that more upright and working on keeping my shoulders from moving.

[Ancient Darter]

Hi Charlie,

I know what I'm going to say may sound a little crazy to many, but just hear me out if you can.

Do you shoot? Powder, or air weapons?

If you've ever tried something as crazy as this, by putting a correct diameter projectile right at the front of the barrel, when you fire, what do you think would happen?

If you put it right at the back of the barrel, and fire it, what do you think would happen?

Chances are, if you've ever tried it, (with air and never powder I hope), you'll discover two things: 

When you put the projectile right at the front of the barrel, it's going to sputter out a short distance. And if you put a paper target say 20 feet in front, you'll get horrible accuracy, if the projectile can reach that far, depending on how much energy is behind the projectile.

As for the projectile at the back of the barrel, or placed securely inside the chamber, it's as per normal - you'll get the velocity you expect, and accuracy.

Your hand holding the dart is kinda like that, even though I cant explain a parallel in scientific terms. 

When you put the dart right at the finger tips, it's like putting the projectile right at the front of the barrel, and firing it. You'll get far reduced velocity, and accuracy (which might explain your growing elbow pain, because you're probably trying to put more energy in to the dart). Needless to say, because the dart is positioned right at the fingertips, you also don't have any, or very little stabilizing effect (like the rifling in the barrel). Which explains the inconsistencies and darts going everywhere.

You'll might also find that with slimmer tungsten barrels, especially if you bought slim, straight darts, things might get worse as there's much less real estate for your finger tip to hold onto, but it might also be better, as you might grip much harder (which can be bad as it leads to inconsistent release) as sometimes throwing a denser material actually helps a little with the inconsistencies. Also, it depends on the cuts of your new darts. Again, I cant explain it scientifically. I just felt that from experience. I might get slammed for this though. Lol!

Try placing the dart somewhere in the middle pad of your thumb, roughly, as long as it feels secure.

Next, your pointer finger with the middle part of the middle pad opposite your thumb. You'll find two things: either your pointer finger tip will fall naturally towards the front of the barrel, which is good, or it will stick up, which can be good or bad, but sticking up requires another set of theories, so I'd rather not go there now. Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

Now your bird finger - can go above, at the side, or below the dart. Some do it above, and some below. I don't recommend at the side of the dart, as it can cause fishtailing. If you notice, in slow-mo videos, some pro darters actually have a porpoising motion of the darts. I find below works for me - to add stability.

When you draw back your hand, what will happen is that your hand will 'curl' up a bit, and your wrist will c-o-c-k - naturally.

That 'curling' and 'cocking' slightly will give you the thrust, as you go forward, and lightly snap your wrist - your fingers will also start extending, naturally. Some folks almost do not move their fingers till the release. I'm not sure if this is a practiced motion, or if it's natural. But if you're thrown rocks before, you know that your fingers will extend naturally.

Because you're placing the dart further down into your fingers, just think of it as your 'rifling', even though it it not. It helps guide, or stabalize, depending on a person's actual hand motion. Almost all darts leave the hand with a natural spin, if placed correctly. There's a slow-mo video of a whole lot of PDC professionals, and all, except one player, spins their darts, naturally, or induced.

Placing it further down into your hand should result in more thrust, because of the amount of flesh behind the dart, and more stability.

There are also loads of variations, and also two, three and four finger holds that works, but I suggest try to stick to something simple - two thrust-fingers, and a stabilizing-finger first.

Anyways, back to the dart placement in your hand. Give it a try. It will feel unnatural because you're probably not used to it, but give it a go - for awhile at least ... a few days or a week, and let us know what happens.  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

If my advise or opinion is unwelcome, please let me know so I won't be wasting bandwidth, and no hard feelings at all.  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

Did i just share that? I seriously hope DNF members don't think of me as 'Nutz'! I know some already do!  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

[Charlie Sears]

That was a super helpful tip Ancient Darter! I've been struggling to find some good tips on grip. A lot of what I read is 'what comes naturally' but I've blown that in my youth and my current 'natural' grip is garbage.

Your points were spot on.

I've adjusted my grip to the photos below. Still struggling remembering to keep my hand open instead of curling in. In only an hour of practice I'm noticing I'm closing A1 a lot faster than I was and my accuracy and repeatability is up. Gonna give it another hour tonight and a few tomorrow. Hopefully I'll be throwing tungsten barrels tomorrow. For now this feels very good and almost natural. Just need to be conscious of how I'm grabbing the dart so as not to slip back into my old habits.

Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

I'm also getting a lot more power behind my throws without really trying to heave it in the board. They're also landing very straight, not the odd veer to the right or left.

[Dartbuggy]

I will send a +1 to Ancient darter for thought provoking gun powder and projectile analogy and other thoughts. I think his analysis of the wrist action is spot on. I appreciate the depth and legibility of that post. I laugh when I see the word chickadee. I discovered a while back that the forum program uses that to automatically replace the word c-o-c-k. I don't mind that so much, but it is nice to know why a word you never typed shows up in your post.

I will use a short analogy as well. I have played disc golf for 35 years. After about 15 years I realized my footwork was wrong. I forced myself to relearn. It set my game back a year. But I came out far better for it. My "natural throw" was an inferior method. Shortly after, I discovered that my fan grip was a very weak grip compared to a power grip. I then went through the same experience with that. Was it worth the time and (frustration) and wait? Hell, yeah.

My dart grip has evolved in the last 2 1/2 years. It has moved forward and back and now covers the whole barrel. I started with a pencil grip with my bird finger under the point. I started developing a bad habit of giving the dart an extra flick with my third finger. I forced myself to move it to the top. Now it presses on the side. The longer I have played, the more the barrel has moved down into my hand, though I never have gripped on the very tips. I grip on the thumb, 1/2 way between tip and first joint. The dart actually presses my second finger near the second joint, so it is deep in there. The pressure between my thumb and index finger is at the same spot on the barrel. This the spot where the thrust comes from. Keeping it equal (on both sides of the dart) is my key to flying a wobble free arrow. I also rest my index finger on top of the barrel between the first and second joint. This really seems to be working for me now as I am experiencing accelerated improvement. Good luck on working your grip out, Charlie Sears.

Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

[Ancient Darter]

That's great Charlie!  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

Glad to help.  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images. And thanks for your rep point DB!  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images. 

Danged! I sure would love to find out how to chikadee my wrist!  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

[Charlie Sears]

I will send a +1 to Ancient darter for thought provoking gun powder and projectile analogy and other thoughts. I think his analysis of the wrist action is spot on. I appreciate the depth and legibility of that post. I laugh when I see the word chickadee. I discovered a while back that the forum program uses that to automatically replace the word c-o-c-k. I don't mind that so much, but it is nice to know why a word you never typed shows up in your post.

I will use a short analogy as well. I have played disc golf for 35 years. After about 15 years I realized my footwork was wrong. I forced myself to relearn. It set my game back a year. But I came out far better for it. My "natural throw" was an inferior method. Shortly after, I discovered that my fan grip was a very weak grip compared to a power grip. I then went through the same experience with that. Was it worth the time and (frustration) and wait? Hell, yeah.

My dart grip has evolved in the last 2 1/2 years. It has moved forward and back and now covers the whole barrel. I started with a pencil grip with my bird finger under the point. I started developing a bad habit of giving the dart an extra flick with my third finger. I forced myself to move it to the top. Now it presses on the side. The longer I have played, the more the barrel has moved down into my hand, though I never have gripped on the very tips. I grip on the thumb, 1/2 way between tip and first joint. The dart actually presses my second finger near the second joint, so it is deep in there. The pressure between my thumb and index finger is at the same spot on the barrel. This the spot where the thrust comes from. Keeping it equal (on both sides of the dart) is my key to flying a wobble free arrow. I also rest my index finger on top of the barrel between the first and second joint. This really seems to be working for me now as I am experiencing accelerated improvement. Good luck on working your grip out, Charlie Sears.

So a good deal of the thrust comes from your fingers propelling the dart as well!? I always thought it was all arm and some wrist flick.

Im quite curious about the evolution of a personal grip.

How did you go about changing your grip through the last 2 1/2 years? Did the old grip start to feel unnatural? Did you change barrels that necessitated a grip change for accuracy?

For now I'm just trying to get something that feels right for me. Ive got enough inaccuracy in my arm Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.. 

Thank you Dartbuggy and Ancient Darter for all of your help in this venture of grip discovery!

[gumbo2176]

I don't think there's and right or wrong grip.    It all comes down to what you are comfortable with and how the darts fly to the board for you.    I've seen people with just a thumb and index finger grip on the point to some that almost close their hands around the dart prior to release and have a full 5 finger grip on the dart.

View some videos on u-tube of players and you will see almost as many different grips as there are players.  My advice is to find something you are comfortable with and go from there, giving it time to see if it works.   If not, change things just a little at a time until things click for you.    Trying a new grip every few days is not going to help in my opinion as you are not giving it a chance to find the groove.

[Charlie Sears]

I don't think there's and right or wrong grip.    It all comes down to what you are comfortable with and how the darts fly to the board for you.    I've seen people with just a thumb and index finger grip on the point to some that almost close their hands around the dart prior to release and have a full 5 finger grip on the dart.

View some videos on u-tube of players and you will see almost as many different grips as there are players.  My advice is to find something you are comfortable with and go from there, giving it time to see if it works.   If not, change things just a little at a time until things click for you.    Trying a new grip every few days is not going to help in my opinion as you are not giving it a chance to find the groove.

For sure, finding a grip I want to stick with for a while is what I'm on. The advice from Ancient Darter has me feeling a lot better with the change I made. Im going to give it at least a week of practicing an hour+ a day before making more changes.

[mcockrell]

my wife had this exactly same problem. the two things i suggested to her was to put a finger on the point somewhere just to stabilize it, and secondly, i suggested that when she goes into her backswing have the dart high above and come all the way back so that the dart is sort of just hanging between your fingers. that way when you throw it has no choice but to go up. and it takes surprisingly little effort to get the dart to the top of the board this way. if you hold it closer to the rear and try to throw it like a fastball to the top of the board its going to take a pretty good bit of power, and when you are throwing it hard like that its sure to be inconsistent at some point because its very hard to replicate every time. anything you can do to make it as natural as possible, and with as little effort as possible will go a long way toward being able to that same thing every throw.

the problem she has now is rushing it and not stopping to take the time to make sure she has it gripped in the same place every time. one problem at a time i guess.

good luck with your issues!