Harrows Darts.

Winmau Blade 4 DC rock solid bottom half
Hey everyone,

I've been a lurker for quite some time because this forum has some really nice information, but I didn't have a need to post myself. Until now, that is.
I've had my Winmau Blade 4 Dual Core for about half a year now, and it sees use about once a week. When I play on it, it's set up in the garage, but when I'm done after about an hour, I always take it back inside the house. I've turned the numbers on the board twice now.

And now I notice that the popular spots on the board (where the 20 used to be and all around it, at the bottom of the board) are rock solid. Or rather, the lower layer seems to be rock solid. I tried this out by pushing a dart into the board by hand. See the following photos:

[attachment=8436]

[attachment=8437]

You'll see that the dart gets pushed in nicely into the 20. I probably could get it in deeper, but I figured I shouldn't force it, so I left it like this.
However, the dart in the 7 (what used to be the 20) only goes so far as you see here. It goes about 0.7 cm deep until it hits an absolutely rock-solid wall and I can't get through it, no matter how much force I apply. Of course, that means you'll have an almost guaranteed dropout if you aim at that part of the board.

Now, of course my question is... Is this normal? Do other people have this? Can I do something about this? What caused this anyway?
6 different sets of darts are thrown at the board in 6 different styles. One of them throws really hard and another throws at a huge angle. But I do always inspect all the tips of the darts and get rid of any hooks.
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Hi Nurio and welcome aboard! Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

Quite a strange one that and I'm not really sure what may have caused it, do you know if it has had any moisture damage?

I know my brother in law had his board (not a B4DC) in a small room next to his kitchen and that room had condensation and moisture caused by been so close to the kitchen. His board was ok until the winter and it got hard and mouldy.
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There is no apparent water damage (mold, swelling, etc.) and I do actively try to prevent that: No drinks near the darts board, keep the darts board in the living room when it's not being used, and all that stuff. So as far as I can tell, it had no water damage.
The only thing I can think of is maybe someone touching the board with excessively sweaty hands? But that should really only affect the top layer and not the bottom layer. And it's the exact reverse here. The top layer seems fine (albeit a bit frizzled from all the darts banging into it) and the bottom layer is rock solid.
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its also possible it may have something to do with the glue that holds the sisal onto the backboard?
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Very strange, but if the particular spot of 20 let say is hard you can put very low water to see if there is any difference ?

And if it is getting better, then you can dry it...
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As Darren says, it could be the glue - push the point into the hard bit as far as it will go and see if its sticky when it comes out.

The pub board used to go hard when it was cold, and when they had the heating on full the points would always get sticky from the glue.
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(05-14-2016, 01:58 PM)REBEL Wrote: As Darren says, it could be the glue - push the point into the hard bit as far as it will go and see if its sticky when it comes out.

The pub board used to go hard when it was cold, and when they had the heating on full the points would always get sticky from the glue.

I really can't push it any further than you see in the photo, no matter how much strength I use. Maybe I could smash through it by swinging the dart down, but I'm not exactly comfortable doing that. Doesn't sound beneficial for the darts board either.
If I push the darts in as deep as you see in the pictures, the tips don't get sticky at all. Neither in the new 20 or in the old 20 (now 7).

I also don't know if temperature has anything to do with this. My house is basically 20 degrees Celsius all year round, save for summer, when it gets a bit hotter (but not much).
The garage has more varying temperatures, but the board only hangs there one hour per week.
And if this were the effect of just the temperature, it wouldn't make sense this only happens in the spots that used to be battered by darts.
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(05-14-2016, 01:55 PM)Plamen Rangelov Wrote: Very strange, but if the particular spot of 20 let say is hard you can put very low water to see if there is any difference ?

And if it is getting better, then you can dry it...

Can you explain what you mean by this? Do you mean a really small amount water on the problem areas?
I'm not sure I can do that, because that would only affect the top layer, right? And the problem is with the bottom layer (in certain popular spots).
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DO NOT USE WATER ON YOUR BOARD under any circumstances

also Do not expose to direct light.

I'm pretty sure the third rule is about feeding them after midnight but I may be getting confused with a Mogwai

Cheers
Tez
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Darts owned.......... Target Taylor 9five Gen2 quattro 26g, Harrows Fire 26g, Red Dragon Falcon GT 26g, XQmax MvG gold 25g, Winmau Steve Beaton 24g, Winmau Andy Fordham (Atomised grip) 23g, Winmau Andy Fordham (Onyx) 23g, Unicorn John Part (Silver Star) 23g, Winmau Wild Roses 22g.

Board used ......... Winmau Blade 5 DC
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(05-14-2016, 03:48 PM)Tez Tickle Wrote: DO NOT USE WATER ON YOUR BOARD under any circumstances

also Do not expose to direct light.

I'm pretty sure the third rule is about feeding them after midnight but I may be getting confused with a Mogwai

Cheers
Tez

Yeah, that's what I thought, too. Though I have seen people say they've used very fine sprays on their board. Or hanging a damp cloth over it.
Anyway, I don't really think it'd be a solution to my problem either way.

As for direct light... There's indoor LED lighting, but otherwise no direct light is on the board
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I have a B4 out in my garage with no heat. The lights on the board caused it to mold one winter so I thought maybe some light cleaning solution would solve the problem. Don't do that. Now I have a trashed board hanging in my garage. I think it was caused from the light exposure I had on the board causing it to be hot and cold too much, but not sure. Good luck with you B4DC.
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(05-14-2016, 03:57 PM)SlingBlade Wrote: I have a B4 out in my garage with no heat. The lights on the board caused it to mold one winter so I thought maybe some light cleaning solution would solve the problem. Don't do that. Now I have a trashed board hanging in my garage. I think it was caused from the light exposure I had on the board causing it to be hot and cold too much, but not sure. Good luck with you B4DC.

Thank you! Yes, I'm wary of using any sort of substances on my board. Basically, I only want to try something if I'm certain it'll help, or at least won't wreck the board.
And to know that, I need to know exactly what caused this problem to begin with...

Could it maybe be a defect of sorts? Would something like this fall under warranty?
(There's probably no real warranty for something like a darts board, but hey, I might as well try.)
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I don't think there is a warranty, but contacting the manufacturer regarding this might be interesting. First, it helps them improve their product (if they are open to gathering statistics). Second, if they are appreciative of that sort of thing, and reward folks for it, you might get a discount certificate for a new board (or even a replacement so they can deconstruct yours to problem solve and find out what caused it). Not sure how the manufacturer would react, but it seems logical to me. As an "artist" making handcrafted pieces, when one comes back to me for repair, the first thing I want to know is how did it happen? I always offer a discount on a new purchase when this happens and am known for also just outright swapping out a piece if I so choose. I even offer a "as long as I'm in business repair or replace for cost of materials" warranty of sorts on my wood framed pieces. I realize manufacturers operate at a different level, but surely that sort of "market research" or "feedback" should be beneficial regardless. It has been for me.
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Thanks for the advice. I contacted Winmau like you said and they made a good 'point'. (Pun intended; you'll see.)
Some of the darts people throw with here have fairly blunt tips. This causes the sisal to be pressed deep into the board and it becomes compacted. And that's possibly what makes it rock solid. This sounds like the most logical cause for it, since it fits all the symptoms. (Only the popular spots are solid, the top layer is fine, etc)

So, I think that's that. I need to maintain my (and other people's!) darts much better. I actually did look into some dart sharpening and found that things like a fish hook sharpener would work well.
I asked in a different thread if a steel sharpener (instead of one made from stone) would work fine, and I was told it would work well for deburring and such, but does it also work for making the darts less blunt? Some slight Google searching brings results in the difference between stone and steel, and they say that stone is best for sharpening... But I'd rather hear from the people here instead of random Google searches
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(05-16-2016, 02:01 PM)Nurio Wrote: Thanks for the advice. I contacted Winmau like you said and they made a good 'point'. (Pun intended; you'll see.)
Some of the darts people throw with here have fairly blunt tips. This causes the sisal to be pressed deep into the board and it becomes compacted. And that's possibly what makes it rock solid. This sounds like the most logical cause for it, since it fits all the symptoms. (Only the popular spots are solid, the top layer is fine, etc)

So, I think that's that. I need to maintain my (and other people's!) darts much better. I actually did look into some dart sharpening and found that things like a fish hook sharpener would work well.
I asked in a different thread if a steel sharpener (instead of one made from stone) would work fine, and I was told it would work well for deburring and such, but does it also work for making the darts less blunt? Some slight Google searching brings results in the difference between stone and steel, and they say that stone is best for sharpening... But I'd rather hear from the people here instead of random Google searches
In my experience blunt points actually damage the board way less then sharp points. I was told sharp points cut the sisal and that damage is irrepairable, blunt points just push the sisal away which should heal over time. Playing with both sharp and blunt points on my own board I can confirm this.
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