Shot Darts

Throw - Push or Pull?
Looking for clarification in regards to "throwing" the dart.  Have read multiple references in threads about "pushing" the dart to the board.  References in various videos of Chizzy "pushing" the dart to the board.  Watching various pros starting their throws with their wrists pulled back toward the body which sort of indicates they at least start their throw "pushing" the dart to the board.  This seems consistent regardless wherever they grip the dart.  So one would suspect that this practice creates the least amount of movement until the point of release where the wrist can be snapped to generate more speed.  Or......is the correct way to start the throw, move the wrist rearward during the draw back, start the forward movement, snap the wrist, and throw the dart, more of a "pull" stroke.  Similar to throwing a ball.  I've found recently by trying to "push" the dart I get better groupings than "pulling" the dart.  But playing baseball in my younger days the "pull" stroke feels more natural.  Ultimately if I group better with a push throw I need to develop that more.  Thanks for any advise Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
Target Raymond Van Barneveld 9Zero 26gr
Unicorn Raymond Van Barneveld Phase 2 25gr
Unicorn Raymond Van Barneveld Phase 5a 24gr Natural
Unicorn Phase 3 24gr
Unicorn Keegan Brown 22g

Winmau Blade 5







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Long time since I've seen this debate come up on a forum. Reminds me of a song that Sammy Davis Jr. sang....... 'I knew a man, Bojangles and he'd dance for you........ Can't stop whistling now lol
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Go with what works
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I try not to over think it but for me a front gripper 'pulls' the dart and a rear gripper 'pushes' it - imagine a log, need to move it from A to B, if your at the front your pulling it, at the back of the log you are pushing it..... Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images. simples
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I've tried just about every different grip and throw but of late I've found a more middle to rear grip with a shorter draw back works best and by having a shorter draw it definitely becomes a push
Board - Gladiator 2 

Darts - Unicorn Aiden Kirk 22g

Best Leg 12 darts at last! 29/12/2017
Best Checkout 164

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(02-14-2016, 05:06 PM)REBEL Wrote: I try not to over think it but for me a front gripper 'pulls' the dart and a rear gripper 'pushes' it - imagine a log, need to move it from A to B, if your at the front your pulling it, at the back of the log you are pushing it..... Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images. simples

I agree with Rebel. If you are gripping the dart ahead of the center of gravity, you are pulling the dart; if you grip behind the CoG, you are pushing it.
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(02-14-2016, 11:01 PM)bkbum Wrote:
(02-14-2016, 05:06 PM)REBEL Wrote: I try not to over think it but for me a front gripper 'pulls' the dart and a rear gripper 'pushes' it - imagine a log, need to move it from A to B, if your at the front your pulling it, at the back of the log you are pushing it..... Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images. simples

I agree with Rebel. If you are gripping the dart ahead of the center of gravity, you are pulling the dart; if you grip behind the CoG, you are pushing it.

Me too, that's how it feels..... I grip the dart from the back of the barrel (the length of the barrel is around 41mm) and I feel as if I've pushed the dart after the follow through.

Cheers
Dorian
Son of Merlin

Caerleon - Wales

(Mission "KURO" M4 rear taper design- 23GmYellow Kite Shape Flights 100 micron & Solid Brass Stems)

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My father Merlin, once told me that "You should end up pointing to what you were aiming at when you've released the Dart."




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(02-14-2016, 05:06 PM)REBEL Wrote: I try not to over think it but for me a front gripper 'pulls' the dart and a rear gripper 'pushes' it - imagine a log, need to move it from A to B, if your at the front your pulling it, at the back of the log you are pushing it..... Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images. simples

Exactly. Just watch pros. To me most pros push the dart where with Barneveld, it's more of a pull/drag to the board.

If most of the dart is above/in front of your hand when releasing = push
If most of the dart is behind your hand while releasing = pull

I don't dwell on it too much though...and it's definitely not scientific, just an observation.
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I overthink just about everything but I've never considered whether it's a push or a pull.

When I throw I don't pause at the end of drawing the dart back (like Gando).  It's just back and through.  It seems to be that if you think it's a push it's a push and if you think it's a pull it's a pull.  The centre of gravity makes sense if you have to have an answer.

For me, it's a bit like the question of the bicycle wheel... Is the rim hanging from the spokes above the hub or resting on the ones below it?

Darts: Harrows Glen Durrant Duzza Series 2 24g, short Harrows Supergrip shafts, Harrows flights (Marathon/Retina/Optix/Rapide) 


Best 501: 13 darts (League), 14 darts (Pro Darter)

Best Checkout: 154 (League), 160 (Pro Darter)
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I've read you can only push a ringed dart. I don't know about that.

Same guy says you use different muscles to push or pull, which I find hard to believe since the triceps is what extends the arm for both.
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(02-15-2016, 03:34 AM)Chardotz Wrote: I've read you can only push a ringed dart. I don't know about that.

Same guy says you use different muscles to push or pull, which I find hard to believe since the triceps is what extends the arm for both.

I use either torpedo-shaped or Lowe-style darts and grip a little behind the fattest part, and it feels like a push to me.  Has nothing to do with rings.

And I guess I see the pull vs. push thing as also having to do with the arc of the hand.  If you hold your elbow up high and leave it in one spot, your hand moves in a pronounced arc and it's more of a pull.  That, and release point is critical -- easy to be off vertically and tough to hit the "sideways" numbers (16, 15) in Cricket.  

If you start with your elbow lower and push the dart straight forward, the elbow will rise and the hand won't travel in much of an arc at all.  Easier to be accurate in the vertical plane.  But the throw takes more arm strength and it's harder on the elbow (at least it is on mine). 

I hardly ever see women throw this way, which may be a strength issue, but may also have to do with their distinctly different elbow construction.*

gents' vs ladies' elbows

* handy info if you hang out in certain kinds of bars.
26's so far this year: I've already lost count. :-)

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Ayup comrades

I push the dart thru. Im also a rear gripper.

Shed
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(02-15-2016, 04:26 PM)brenthahn Wrote:
(02-15-2016, 03:34 AM)Chardotz Wrote: I've read you can only push a ringed dart. I don't know about that.

Same guy says you use different muscles to push or pull, which I find hard to believe since the triceps is what extends the arm for both.

I use either torpedo-shaped or Lowe-style darts and grip a little behind the fattest part, and it feels like a push to me.  Has nothing to do with rings.

And I guess I see the pull vs. push thing as also having to do with the arc of the hand.  If you hold your elbow up high and leave it in one spot, your hand moves in a pronounced arc and it's more of a pull.  That, and release point is critical -- easy to be off vertically and tough to hit the "sideways" numbers (16, 15) in Cricket.  

If you start with your elbow lower and push the dart straight forward, the elbow will rise and the hand won't travel in much of an arc at all.  Easier to be accurate in the vertical plane.  But the throw takes more arm strength and it's harder on the elbow (at least it is on mine). 

I hardly ever see women throw this way, which may be a strength issue, but may also have to do with their distinctly different elbow construction.*

gents' vs ladies' elbows

* handy info if you hang out in certain kinds of bars.

This sounds like what I am seeing Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.   High elbow pull throw gives a windmill affect.  You can throw harder, but as stated your release point has to be spot on.  Plus any wrist breakdown 1's and 5's galore.  Your push description is exactly what I've noticed.  If the wrist is also sort of locked rearward at start of throw it is very easy to snap the wrist, follow throw, and elbow raised is almost natural, no drop down throws.  Plus the snap seems to decrease or get rid of any wrist turn over.  It does seem to take more effort to do too.  Lastly, me being a front gripper, with front loaded darts it is taking a bit of getting used to.  Not sure whether to rebuild with push motion or not, but glad to hear you see what I'm talking about.  Thanks!!!!
Target Raymond Van Barneveld 9Zero 26gr
Unicorn Raymond Van Barneveld Phase 2 25gr
Unicorn Raymond Van Barneveld Phase 5a 24gr Natural
Unicorn Phase 3 24gr
Unicorn Keegan Brown 22g

Winmau Blade 5







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As for "It does seem to take more effort to do..." this also depends on how sideways you stand.  Try this: assuming you're right handed, assume a very sideways stance relative to the target and gently place your left (non-throwing) hand on your upper right chest.  Raise your arm and tense up the muscles as if you're about to throw.  You shouldn't feel any real difference in your chest muscles.  Now turn so you're facing the target more straight-on and try it again.  This time, the muscles in your upper right chest should noticeably tense up, meaning they're "helping" with the throw and it takes less arm strength.  

But the way I'm built, my arm is in much more of a natural alignment when I'm sideways, so sideways it is.
26's so far this year: I've already lost count. :-)

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Your chest muscle pulls your upper arm towards the body. Doesn't seem like proper form.

Which pros push or pull?
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