Harrows Darts.

A Weighty Matter Uniboffin article
https://www.unicorn-darts.com/news/2016/...atter.aspx


A Weighty Matter
Posted by UniBoffin at 13:15 on 1st February 2016 in UniBlog
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A very warm welcome to my first blog of 2016, I hope you had a good festive season and got the chance to see at least some of the World Championship darts. I reckon the PDC event was one of the most exciting ever, culminating in Gary Anderson showing just what a great champion he is – as well as when’s a good time to hit a 170 checkout. Meanwhile, the BDO finals featured Scott Waites returning from injury to something approaching his old form and Golden Girl Trina Gulliver’s emotional 10th victory. Many congrats to all!

Now to business. My last Uniblog (my 100th – who’d have thought I was that full of, erm, informative darting data?) introduced an “Ask The UniBoffin” facility, whereby I try to answer any questions posted to my latest blog with a corresponding post to the same blog. Some interesting topics duly arose, one of which I think is particularly worthy of review.

In the blog itself I explained that a dart’s trajectory is usually only a few millimetres different from the parabola that would be described by its centre of gravity were aerodynamic effects absent. I also pointed out that this parabola is totally determined by the speed and direction of the throw, irrespective of the design of the dart or the angle at which it’s released.

I then referred to this explanation in an answer to a question from our old friend Warren, who is having trouble finding a dart that suits him. In so doing I mentioned an important point I make no apology for regurgitating here:

“….. playing around with set-ups cannot compensate for the barrel not suiting you in terms of shape, grip, and weight.”

I had considered adding “balance” to this triumvirate, but decided against as it’s generally pretty much a function of shape, although there are admittedly exceptions (see the Unicorn Ultracore One). Some other consequences of the above statement I hope to return to in future blogs, but what I want to discuss here is why I also considered leaving out “weight”.

My belief is that players can tend to be a bit too hung-up on barrel weight. Once a dart is released, that aforementioned parabola is entirely unaffected by its weight and the perturbations from it due to aerodynamic effects are just as much concerned with other factors such as flight size and overall length.

From an aerodynamic viewpoint, a heavier dart barrel should be shorter than a lighter one fitted with the same shaft and flights to behave most similarly on the way to the board. Unfortunately, a well-established trick of human perception means a shorter barrel is likely to feel heavier than a longer one of the same weight.

In combination these factors can tend to keep players wedded to a particular barrel weight. Even if they’re open-minded enough to try, say, a heavier dart in the same range, the chances are it will not be, for obvious reasons (although there are notable exceptions!), shorter. It may be of greater diameter, or longer, or sometimes both (as in the Core XL T80 range shown). This means it may “feel” OK, but it won’t behave similarly in flight unless the shaft/flights set-up is adjusted appropriately. Alternatively, even if a barrel is tried which is both heavier and shorter or lighter and longer, the perceived weight difference will be exaggerated and it may “feel” wrong.

So, if you’re fairly happy with the way your current darts fly, but fancy trying a different weight, be prepared to either take the second route above, accepting the different “feel” and just going on results, or take the first route and be prepared to alter your set-up accordingly. In simple terms, if you stick with your usual shafts, for heavier and/or longer barrels try using bigger flights. Using a lighter shaft could also work, although that would arguably be rather defeating the purpose of changing barrel weight in the first place.

Which brings me on to why, even ignoring the dictates of league regulations, I think it’s rather more understandable for soft-tip players to be fussy about the nominal weight of their darts than it is for steel-tippers – at least an 18gm soft-tip dart is the weight of the total projectile, a nominally 18gm steel-tip could weigh anywhere between 19 and 21gms after the shaft and flights are fitted.

A weighty matter indeed!

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This is a good article! I've been looking at my first set of soft tip darts for a while and UniBoffin brings up a lot of great points. I'll be honest, I was mostly looking at weights, now I will factor shape into my search, but it's tough to imagine the shape of a barrel from looking at pictures online.
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"From an aerodynamic viewpoint, a heavier dart barrel should be shorter than a lighter one fitted with the same shaft and flights to behave most similarly on the way to the board."

Am I reading this correctly? It's saying that if you are going from a 22g barrel to a 26g barrel you should buy a shorter barrel for the heavier dart, so that with the same stem/flights it will behave the most similar as your 22g?
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Darts: Red Dragon Recoil 25g, Red Dragon Andrew Gilding 25g. Stems: Harrows Supergrip, Flights: Harrows
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Yes, that is right.  

The heavier one needs to be shorter so that the moments of the darts are similar.  Roughly speaking, as far as moments are concerned, heavy and short is closer to light and long.  A heavy dart has a larger moment of inertia, as does a longer dart.  So to minimize the change in the moment, a heavy dart needs to be shorter to behave like a longer lighter one.  Behave means the rate/speed at which wobbles are corrected on the way to the board.
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(02-02-2016, 01:00 AM)BigE Wrote: Yes, that is right.  

The heavier one needs to be shorter so that the moments of the darts are similar.  Roughly speaking, as far as moments are concerned, heavy and short is closer to light and long.  A heavy dart has a larger moment of inertia, as does a longer dart.  So to minimize the change in the moment, a heavy dart needs to be shorter to behave like a longer lighter one.  Behave means the rate/speed at which wobbles are corrected on the way to the board.

cool cheers. So the same would apply the other way, if I'm using a 26g short barrel and I want to try a 23g I should probably go for one with a slightly longer barrel rather than thinner..

That's interesting, I'm wondering now if there is a mm/g ratio ... like 3g = 6mm or something?
.......................................................................................................................................
Darts: Red Dragon Recoil 25g, Red Dragon Andrew Gilding 25g. Stems: Harrows Supergrip, Flights: Harrows
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Interesting.
I've recently gone from a heavier dart to a lighter dart and ended up with the exact same setup. I think there are other variables too.

My Phase 3 Barney's (shark grip) are 95% tungsten. I use a medium stem and standard flights.
My 22g Bull's Sharks are nearly the exact same design but a few (1-2) mm shorter and only slightly thinner. If you put them next to each other on a table, they look exactly the same (No surprise because Barney did use Bull's at one time....like when he beat Taylor in the World Champs).
Again, I found a medium stem and standard flights flew the most consistently with the lighter Bull's. I tried every possible combo and nothing came close to the same accuracy/consistency.

Barney's Phase 1-4 darts are all center weighted and barely drilled out past the rear threads. My Bull's are drilled out almost the exact same depth of the Phase 3s and balance in the exact same spot.

All I'm saying is that I kind of agree with this article but there are a lot of variables.

If you are using a lighter dart and feel like going up to a heavier dart, just try to find a similar shape but in a higher tungsten percentage. Often times you can get a dart that's 3 grams heavier but has the exact same balance as your lighter set.
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(02-02-2016, 01:21 AM)FireInTheCity Wrote:
(02-02-2016, 01:00 AM)BigE Wrote: Yes, that is right.  

The heavier one needs to be shorter so that the moments of the darts are similar.  Roughly speaking, as far as moments are concerned, heavy and short is closer to light and long.  A heavy dart has a larger moment of inertia, as does a longer dart.  So to minimize the change in the moment, a heavy dart needs to be shorter to behave like a longer lighter one.  Behave means the rate/speed at which wobbles are corrected on the way to the board.

cool cheers. So the same would apply the other way, if I'm using a 26g short barrel and I want to try a 23g I should probably go for one with a slightly longer barrel rather than thinner..

That's interesting, I'm wondering now if there is a mm/g ratio ... like 3g = 6mm or something?

For a Rod, eg. barrel,  the moment of Inertia I = ( m x L^2)/12  where m is mass, L is length of rod and ^2 means "squared".
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The science of darts....where do you stand?
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(08-04-2017, 01:15 AM)Cat Wrote: The science of darts....where do you stand?

Throw the pointy thingy at the round thingy on the wall.....that's as sciency as I get Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
GranID: GazzaB82 
              (The Biscuit) 
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(08-04-2017, 07:57 AM)Gazzabnorthern Wrote:
(08-04-2017, 01:15 AM)Cat Wrote: The science of darts....where do you stand?

Throw the pointy thingy at the round thingy on the wall.....that's as sciency as I get Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

Works for me - I like sharp pointy things Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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Thanks, Darren, very interesting reading!
            
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Target 9Five Generation 3s Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.  23.g (weighted 22s) 32mm points.  How can I miss with them arrows?  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.   

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(02-07-2018, 05:57 PM)DanC.Licks Wrote: Thanks, Darren, very interesting reading!

There was lots of articles like that on the old site, I hope Unicorn are going to archive them and put them all up on the new one Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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