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When to change weight and why?
I am curious as to what is prevailing wisdom on why and when to change to a lighter or heavier dart as your #1 thrower? I'm coming back to darts after ten years plus away and started back with my old 25 gram darts. They felt a bit heavy so I invested in a couple sets of 24g and 23g to experiment and share with guests. I started a couple of months ago casually trying numerous throws back and forth with 23s and 24s and the 24s seemed more comfortable and found their target more often. So, I have basically settled on as my "#1" set these Unicorn Purist Phase 2 24g and as my alternate "#2" set Winmau Phantom 24g, both with Winmau medium carbon/nylon shafts and Ribtex standard size/shape flights with Target lock rings and aluminum bullet flight protectors.
My #1 set Unicorn Purist Phase 2 24 gram
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My #2 set Winmau Phantom 24 gram
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My landlord upstairs who comes down a couple nights a week for a beer has claimed my 23 gram vintage Winmau Diplomats as his favorite with their classic white aluminum shafts and crisp white nylon flights and sets aside as backups a nice set of Unicorn 95T in 23 grams.
Winmau Diplomat 23 gram
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Unicorn 95T 23 gram
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So, we play three games of 301 tonight, middle aged and modestly skilled at best, and I squeak by with a narrow victory. He says "lets throw three at the bullseye for fun to quit on" and hits a single bull and two near misses. I say "let me try the 23 gram Unicorns just for fun" and smack smack smack, single, double, single bulls sprouting from the center of the board. Best three darts I have thrown ever. I have been practicing and slowly getting a little better but never more than two single bulls or one double bull in three darts. I went back then and threw the lighter darts a few more times and did okay but mostly flew high and then back to the 24 grams and of course they felt more familiar and accurate. I'm sure the triple bullseye was luck and a fluke to some extent, but maybe the sudden lighter weight just focused in effortlessly? My question is, if you aren't consistently throwing low or having tendon or joint pain, etc. is there a reason to go to a lighter dart permanently or to switch for testing purposes just occasionally to "recalibrate" and make sure you are throwing the most comfortable and accurate weight, or best to stick with one weight and not change anything unless you have a particular problem?
Here are my bullseyes with the 23 gram 95T's, scout's honor just as they hit no posing as my landlord will vouch (at this rate I won't be able to hustle him out of rent though.) I still like the heft of my 24 gram Purists, but should I start switching to 23 gram darts?
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I know this will sound useless but just go with whatever feels best. Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images. If you think you're throwing better with the 23s it's probably worth trying them for longer but new darts always seem to come with a honeymoon period which can wear off.

In my case, I switched from 23g steeltip to 14g softip ages ago and haven't looked back since. Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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Cosmo Juggler Queen 2nd 400 (18g) + One80 Reflex conversion points
Cosmo Carbon #8 locked stem
Cosmo Fit Flight Juggler yellow (ocean design)

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I don't think there is a strict definition of when you should or should not do something with your setup its such a personal thing that its not something you can set as strict guideline but as Josh says you go by what feels right to you.
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Imo there shouldn't be much, if any difference with a 23, 24 or 25 gram dart. Whatever feels right. I suppose if you grabbed a 17 gram dart and started shooting lights out... well that would be another story.
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Agreed with Darren and Josh - there's no clear benchmark as to when and what weight.

A lot also depends on design of the darts as well, their balance and how and where you grip and how you throw. Some darts in hand particular feel lighter or heavier than their stated weight.

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The thing I've found as I've gotten older is I do throw with more consistency with a heavier dart than what I initially started throwing many years ago.   I'm up a good 4 grams over that time period.    Almost all of my darts that I use are 25 grams now, but I do have several other sets that are lighter with the lightest being 21 grams.   

I know for sure I could never get use to tossing darts in the 17-19 gram range as I've tried in the past with other players darts and I have no control over them.   Good thing this is a steel tip town and soft tip is pretty much non-existent.
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Thanks for the tips, guys. I tried a few more rounds with the 23 gram darts and they seemed less controlled, more flying about than the more accustomed 24 grams. Maybe the three bull group was a fluke, but I'll be working for a while to recapture the moment.
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Lighter usually means thinner.  Lighter also means more sensitive to throwing error -- ie wider spray.  

I would change to thinner if my grouping was good, but I was having trouble putting 3 into the T20 because of the size of the dart.  If the size of the spray did not increase, that may also mean going lighter.

1 gm lighter should not be the difference between uncontrollable and enjoyable.  The 1 gm lighter dart may have other features you don't like, but the weight difference ought to be negligible.
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(01-26-2016, 07:05 PM)BigE Wrote: 1 gm lighter should not be the difference between uncontrollable and enjoyable.  

Only highly experienced drug dealers should be able to tell the difference in 1 gram of weight. Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images. Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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(01-26-2016, 07:05 PM)BigE Wrote: Lighter usually means thinner.  Lighter also means more sensitive to throwing error -- ie wider spray.  

I would change to thinner if my grouping was good, but I was having trouble putting 3 into the T20 because of the size of the dart.  If the size of the spray did not increase, that may also mean going lighter.

1 gm lighter should not be the difference between uncontrollable and enjoyable.  The 1 gm lighter dart may have other features you don't like, but the weight difference ought to be negligible.

Myth, opinion or fact?
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(01-26-2016, 07:31 PM)Cyanide Wrote:
(01-26-2016, 07:05 PM)BigE Wrote: Lighter usually means thinner.  Lighter also means more sensitive to throwing error -- ie wider spray.  

I would change to thinner if my grouping was good, but I was having trouble putting 3 into the T20 because of the size of the dart.  If the size of the spray did not increase, that may also mean going lighter.

1 gm lighter should not be the difference between uncontrollable and enjoyable.  The 1 gm lighter dart may have other features you don't like, but the weight difference ought to be negligible.

Myth, opinion or fact?

Don't know about BigE, but in my opinion, it is a fact I spray the board more with lighter darts, and that's no myth.
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In my experience, it is a fact.  

I once threw 19 gm darts with short shafts and kite flights for about 3 years.  Very unstable dart, very demanding of form.  It took awhile to get on top of them and it was at first very easy to miss.  It  took a while before they would behave. Kind of like a sports car... agility(little inputs make for big changes) at the expense of stability.

Now, twenty years later,  having worked down to 21 gm  (Terry Jenkins) , I switched up to 25 gm RvB Phase 2a darts.   I like the balance point better on the RvB and the heft/feel of the 25 gm darts is more substantial, which seems more suitable for a big guy.  I can also throw them for long stretches without pain -- that is a big deal.

My guess is that to feel the same weight of dart on the pullback and push, the lighter dart must be accelerated more.  The heavier dart does not need more acceleration to feel the same, it can use less:

 Force=Mass x Acceleration, so if you increase the mass by say 25%, you can decrease the acceleration by the same amount, and your fingers will feel the same force from the dart resisting the push. That makes a heavier dart easier to throw as less muscular effort is needed.
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I am 41 now. Been playing a little over 20 years. Dealing with some tendonitis in my throwing elbow. Had a couple steroid shots over the last year. Helps for a week or 2 it seems thats it. So I am now playing around with throwing a heavier dart with a lighter arcing throw, or a lighter dart more direct at the board? I honestly dont know. Anyone else with tennis elbow I would be curious to hear what you have done/changed.
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(01-26-2016, 07:59 PM)BigE Wrote: In my experience, it is a fact.  

I once threw 19 gm darts with short shafts and kite flights for about 3 years.  Very unstable dart, very demanding of form.  It took awhile to get on top of them and it was at first very easy to miss.  It  took a while before they would behave. Kind of like a sports car... agility(little inputs make for big changes) at the expense of stability.
Very unstable because of your grip and/or setup?

Now, twenty years later,  having worked down to 21 gm  (Terry Jenkins) , I switched up to 25 gm RvB Phase 2a darts.   I like the balance point better on the RvB and the heft/feel of the 25 gm darts is more substantial, which seems more suitable for a big guy.  I can also throw them for long stretches without pain -- that is a big deal.

My guess is that to feel the same weight of dart on the pullback and push, the lighter dart must be accelerated more.  The heavier dart does not need more acceleration to feel the same, it can use less:

 Force=Mass x Acceleration, so if you increase the mass by say 25%, you can decrease the acceleration by the same amount, and your fingers will feel the same force from the dart resisting the push. That makes a heavier dart easier to throw as less muscular effort is needed.

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(01-26-2016, 09:52 PM)A-ZDarts Wrote: I am 41 now. Been playing a little over 20 years. Dealing with some tendonitis in my throwing elbow. Had a couple steroid shots over the last year. Helps for a week or 2 it seems thats it. So I am now playing around with throwing a heavier dart with a lighter arcing throw, or a lighter dart more direct at the board? I honestly dont know. Anyone else with tennis elbow I would be curious to hear what you have done/changed.

Had tendonitis myself a few years back and it got so bad that it required surgery to reconnect the torn stuff that was found in the MRI.    I too had steroid shots that didn't last for very long and throwing was a crap shoot as to when that stinger would hit.   That really dampened my enthusiasm for, and desire, to throw much.

Personally, I believe throwing a lighter dart is probably more harmful to the throwing motion since I know it takes me more effort to get the dart to the board on the same trajectory as a heavier dart.   I know everybody is different and a lighter dart may be just what the Dr. ordered, but it would not work for me.
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