Harrows Darts.

Does the hole in the stem affect the stem?
Hi all!

I have been looking at going back to aluminium stems with slim flights in order to try and get my darts to lay 'flat' . Does the hole (which you use to tighten up the stem) affect the stem at all such as balance, angle, weight etc?

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I have never noticed that the hole had any effect at all on the dart. I think you would have better luck changing your shaft length than you will by going to aluminum shafts though. I know that it made all the difference for mine.
Darts in Use:
STEEL
League/Match Set: Voks 22g EL-C Crossover
Backup match set: Dynasty 20g Fallon Sherrock Soft tips (w/ Fit Point conversion points)
Home Board: Blade 4 Dual Core
SOFT
Match Set: Katana Kokutou Hisyou 17.5g  Softtips. (My principle soft tip set)
Backup Match Set: Bull's Mamba 97 16.5g
Home Board: Gran Board II

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(01-08-2016, 07:38 AM)jschwab Wrote: I have never noticed that the hole had any effect at all on the dart. I think you would have better luck changing your shaft length than you will by going to aluminum shafts though. I know that it made all the difference for mine.

 I would agree with with those observations, now that Target produce 5 stem lengths purchasing a set of each length would give a wide range of trial & error + a set of each flight shape should give you a wide range of variations. I find the longer the barrel, for me requires a shorter stem to achieve roughly the same " angle of dangle" in the board, also the type of throw affects the angle, if you are a "floaty" type thrower the tail will sit up more than if you are a more power type thrower.
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Makes not a Jot of difference....
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Yeah, when I see a hole in the side of the stem, it's an indicator that those stems are going in the trash. It's either crap aluminum stems or those brittle older plastic Unicorn stems in that odd size.

It's just a nice reminder: trash time.

We're at the point in darts that a decent stem is so inexpensive. Even the Designa's are miles better than aluminum/old Unicorn garbage.
Target Pro Grips are one of the better stems out of the big names...and they're still a quid/$1. 3-4 years ago, you wanted a Pro Grip quality stem, you paid $5 and bought Laro.

No excuse to play with garbage stems. Besides Hankey, I can't think of a single pro that uses aluminum anymore.
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gerwin price, taylor, fitton, baxter there are others too. i know you dont like them but others do and play well with them.

personally i love the size of the unicorn medium shafts and i use gripper 3 with punched springs and have no problems with them at all. i also really like the softflex stems.
Darts: 22g Darts Clearance 
Shafts: Medium Natural 
Flights: Standard No.2

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(01-08-2016, 01:10 PM)Regulatori Wrote: Yeah, when I see a hole in the side of the stem, it's an indicator that those stems are going in the trash. It's either crap aluminum stems or those brittle older plastic Unicorn stems in that odd size.

It's just a nice reminder: trash time.

We're at the point in darts that a decent stem is so inexpensive. Even the Designa's are miles better than aluminum/old Unicorn garbage.
Target Pro Grips are one of the better stems out of the big names...and they're still a quid/$1. 3-4 years ago, you wanted a Pro Grip quality stem, you paid $5 and bought Laro.

No excuse to play with garbage stems. Besides Hankey, I can't think of a single pro that uses aluminum anymore.
Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images. Spot on. Aluminum is crap! I think everyone knows my feeling about them. Now titanium is a different story.
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I don't trash the aluminum shafts. I resell them to my mates as all of them are still using aluminum. You would think they would notice that I am the only one in the group who doesn't have to replace one or two stems during a night of darts when all of them have to. One of the lads had to replace 4 stems the last time we got together.
Darts in Use:
STEEL
League/Match Set: Voks 22g EL-C Crossover
Backup match set: Dynasty 20g Fallon Sherrock Soft tips (w/ Fit Point conversion points)
Home Board: Blade 4 Dual Core
SOFT
Match Set: Katana Kokutou Hisyou 17.5g  Softtips. (My principle soft tip set)
Backup Match Set: Bull's Mamba 97 16.5g
Home Board: Gran Board II

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Hankey still uses aluminums. stubborn ol' man.
-Milky

Keeping dart retailers in business since 2012.
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This stuff is not known because the powers that be don't want their secret advantage to become common knowledge. I, however, do not support the powers that be and feel free to kick down what has always been privileged information. True, I may be putting my safety at risk, but that is the world we live in today and I, as a true libertine, must support the advancement of knowledge whenever I can, regardless of my own personal safety. My conclusions are the result of intensive smoke testing and x-channel microfilming of dart flight patterns in an anechoic chamber. The, so called hole, is actually an ingenious guidance system that communicates with the human brain through alpha and zeta waves. See, the hole causes a trans-fractional distortion in airflow that enables a slight yaw and rotation, (either clockwise or counter-clockwise depending on which hemisphere you live in). This distortion causes an ultrasonic vibration of ionic membranes that surround all objects that move through time and space by reversing the phase of the flux-capacitance. The inventors of the hole realized they could use this to create a three dimensional rail for the dart to ride on that is controllable through the alpha and zeta brain waves. These waves are generated through the consumption of malted beverages in a low-light environment. There may be an inclination of skeptics to deride these facts as superstition, and/or even dangerous unseen forces that seek to control our brains. I assure you, this is nothing of the sort. This is science, pure and simple. Those that choose to laugh at these ideas are free to do so. I choose to exploit the built in hidden advantage of aluminum stems and laugh my way to victory at the bar.
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Thunk, thunk, thunk, walk, chalk, pull, turn, walk, turn, repeat...

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(01-08-2016, 01:55 PM)rich345 Wrote: gerwin price, taylor, fitton, baxter there are others too. i know you dont like them but others do and play well with them.

personally i love the size of the unicorn medium shafts and i use gripper 3 with punched springs and have no problems with them at all. i also really like the softflex stems.

The newest Gripper 3s and softflex are great stems. I'm talking about the older Unicorn plastic stems that have the hole in the side. The Gripper 3's don't have that hole if I remember right.
I've used those Unicorn stems with the hole in the side and broke so many of them. At one time they came in those little "bonus box" when you bought a set of Unicorn darts online. One night I didn't have any stems for my tournament and my friend had a few of those Bonus Box's with the Unicorn stems with the hole in the side. No joke, I broke FIVE of those stems in one night. Yes, the bar sucked and had a concrete floor but in the years of playing there, I may have broke 1-2 generic style Designa, Pro Grip, or Laro nylon stems. They kept snapping right at the threads.


One thing also, if you want to add weight to the rear of the dart, you have multiple options....you don't have to use aluminum stems. My biggest issue with aluminum is they can be a pain to insert flights and can be difficult to spot if they're bent. My soft tip friends used to tease me when I used plastic stems because they all used aluminum. Then one day I told them to take off their flights and roll their darts on the table. All of them had at least one stem with a bad bend that wasn't noticeable when looking at it...but soon as you rolled it, you could see a huge wobble.

Another thing worth mentioning is that aluminum stems are not always that much heavier than nylon.

I just weighed two different medium aluminum stems (Winmau and Bulls)...they ranged from 1.45-1.55g

I don't know the exact brand since I've ordered generic solid color stems from multiple shops...but the range of medium nylon stem weight can be quite drastic.
I put medium nylon stems in 3 weight groups. Again, these can be 3 sets of solid color nylon stems (the generic style) from different shops.
1.10g-ish
1.25g-ish
1.35-1.40g

That means that some nylon stems (again, not sure who's making them since they all look the same) are within .10-.15g of your typical aluminum stem.

Yeah, I can have two identical looking white medium nylon stems....one stem can weigh 1.08g and the other, 1.36g
People don't realize the variances...they assume all nylon stems weigh the same because they look EXACTLY the same.

Then you have the weight of flights.
My favorite generic standard size Designa/R4X (typical solid color flight) in 100 micron weighs around .68g
I have set of standard size 150 micron flights from Bull's that weigh .95g

So you could have two medium nylon/standard flight setups with extreme variances in weight ranges.
That light medium stem/100 micron flight setup = roughly 1.80g combined
That exact same looking medium stem (but is actually heavier) combined with a 150 micron flight = 2.30g combined.

.50g hanging off the very end of your dart can make a huge difference.

It helps to have a gram scale but many aluminum flight lovers would be surprised just how heavy of a setup you can achieve using nylon stems/standard flight. You just have to find the right setup.
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(01-08-2016, 05:50 AM)DanGoldsmith180 Wrote: Hi all!

I have been looking at going back to aluminium stems with slim flights in order to try and get my darts to lay 'flat' . Does the hole (which you use to tighten up the stem) affect the stem at all such as balance, angle, weight etc?

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I agree with the idea of darts lying flat. I think it is then easier to group other darts around them and they are less blocking. I think adding weight at the back is counter-productive. It will make your dart lie flatter, but it also moves the center of balance rearward. If you want your darts to not stand up as much, use smaller flights. Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images. This also has the benefit of making more room around the target, slightly lessoning the chance of dart-on-flight bounce outs. Don't tell the government, (or Saber) but I have been following this strategy for months. Minimize weight to the rear (I even started using short stems), smallen the flight, and reduce your dart's footprint on the board.
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Thunk, thunk, thunk, walk, chalk, pull, turn, walk, turn, repeat...

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Thank you everyone for your responses! Can't fault this forum Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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(01-08-2016, 05:50 AM)DanGoldsmith180 Wrote: Hi all!

I have been looking at going back to aluminium stems with slim flights in order to try and get my darts to lay 'flat' . Does the hole (which you use to tighten up the stem) affect the stem at all such as balance, angle, weight etc?

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NOPE. The hole is the not the cause.

4 things affect final angle in the dart board:

1) weight distribution on dart (front weighted, center balanced, back weighted ...)
2) Length of stem
3) type of flight (ie. area of flight measured in cm squared
4) weight of shaft
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Darts: 22g Rebel One80 / 22g John Part Golden Hero
Stems: Harrow Magnetic Mediums
Flights: Combat
Board: Blade 4
Board Light: Circumluminator

Highest checkout: 167
Favorite checkout: 125 (50-25-50)
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Fave double in: D20
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There is nothing wrong with moving the balance point rearward, especially if you are a rear-gripper. 

After all, the rule of thumb is to put your thumb on the balance point.
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