HELP! dart sticks in board nose up

[mcockrell]

hi guys! its been a while since ive been on here and I apologize for that.

i just got a new set of darts and they are about 1/2 inch or so longer than my old ones. im deadly accurate with them (purist grip) but the problem is that every time i throw it feels great coming out of my hand but it ends up in the board with the pin straight up and barely sticking in. ive always used the short stems because i grip the dart sort of toward the tip and i never had much luck with regular or longer stems, in fact i have always had the same problem that I'm having now. i love the darts but i don't want to change my entire throw because of them.

i have tried adjusting my elbow height during aiming to no avail. ive also tried to grip the dart more toward the pin and tried more toward the shaft. ive tried more wrist "pop" and less. ive tried longer backstroke and shorter. ive also tried moving my stroke from my eye to my ear (trying to achieve more of an arm motion like throwing a football). nothing really works. ive even tried using more of a chizzy approach and keeping the dart on the same plane. that works to a certain extent but with the way the dart is gripped its not really feasible.

i have a very bad feeling that the problem lies in my wrist pop and/or the exact time of release during the throw. i guess i just wanted to see if there was anything hardware related i could try because im scared that im going to find out that i don't have nearly enough wrist action in my throw, which is going to cause me to relearn to throw. that sucks! even though it will probably be much better in the long run, i would just hate to feel like i lost all those hours of practicing the way i throw now.


oh, and one more thing. the reason i switched is because my darts were stolen and i honestly cant remember where i got them or what brand or anything. hell i cant really remember exactly what they looked like so replacing them is pretty much out of the question. Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

thanks in advance!
MC

[jc14]

There are better qualified people here that me, who will help.
For what its worth if it is feeling good leaving your hand then there cant be much wrong. If the dart is going to land wrong I know instantly the second it leaves my hand.
I'd guess it is the extra length in the dart that might be doing it. I'd try a combination of different stems and flights and see.

Edit: Some will say here (correctly IMO) that different darts often require different set ups.

[*Saber*]

Sent a pic please. Better yet a vid of your grip and throw.

[kadziunt]

You need to post viedo. I think problem is in your darts position before you release darts. Probably its point down or horizontal. If you throw darts points up they will stick point down Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

[The Egg]

Try long stems, gives the dart more chance to correct itself in the air. Also, make sure you're using big flights - Unicorn Big Wing, Target standards (not the vision ones).

when I was using straight barrels they were doing the same, I changed the stems and they worked a treat. I was an advocate of long barrel short stem, but that's not always true - look at gary anderson, long barrel, long stem, big flight. His stand up proud. Just an idea....

[BigE]

It could be the throw.  If you are forcing the dart towards the board with an extreme push and making that dart fly on a laser line of sight, that could be trouble.  When the longer dart is pushed like that, it is possible for you to literally push the tail down with a late release.

It that sounds like your throw, then try adding a bit of a lob -- let the dart do the work.  Let it fly to the board as opposed to pushing it forcefully to the target.  Think more about the arm as an inverted pendulum and less about drilling the dart down a straight pipe.

[Regulatori]

My darts always land level.

3 things that I have noticed that make the biggest difference in tail down.

-Medium stems. With some darts, I need a tweenie or my dart will lay tail down.

-Too small of flights or too heavy of flights. I can throw 100 micron flights all day and my darts land flat. if I switch to 150 micron flights, the darts will sit tail down. I've done countless test using pure white darts with no markings (100 micron vs 150 micron) and the 150's WILL always land tail down. You could even try using 75 microns.

-Longer points. Don't ask me why. Again, this could be specific with my throw. But soon as I switched to 32mm points, it helped bring the dart up more level. Also, good grippy points can make a big deal too because they'll stick in the board and not make the dart droop. Plus with a shorter point, the dart will be driven further into the board so heaviest part of the dart (the barrel) is closer to the board. In my experience it just makes the darts lay flat/tail up with no droop.

My favorite points are Target Diamond Points. Been using them for years now and have made many converts. I think Phil Taylor uses these too. They stick a bit hard when you first get them but smooth out. It just feels like a point that's been constantly scuffed. I swear by these and find them one of the best investments if you ever play leagues on crappy boards. Again, I use the 32mm Target Diamond Points.

[AD18]

Like Big E's answer and what I was thinking of as well.  Plus, I would look at position of dart in your grip in relation to the floor.  With your current grip guestimate where the dart is a point of your release.  Try lifting or dropping the nose in wee increments and see what happens.  Or try to release a wee bit sooner or later.  With the extreme porpoising getting the dart flying flatter out of your hand may help.  Lastly try bigger flights right up to Unicorn Big Wing XL or Harrow MaxAirs to get maximum stability faster.  Best of luck.

[mcockrell]

thank you guys so much. I actually think all of you were right haha. I put longer stems on with thicker flights and that seemed to help, also since this happened I was able to actually figure out that my darts are a lot truer when I start my throw with the dart parallel to the floor and use more of a lob. I had somehow gotten into the habit of trying to throw it very hard. that probably came from watching the pros too much because with the split screen they have it doesn't really show their lob, but its there. and finally, I did notice that the points are about 1/4-3/8" longer than the points on any other set of darts that I have. last year i bought my wife some really expensive piranha darts and neither one of us could throw them at all. in fact, i had the same issue with them. they were heavier and i would have thought that the heavier ones would actually be easier to throw, but for some reason the longer points just made it impossible for me to even get them to stick in the board with any regularity. we filed the points down and shes still using them. so i may try that on these darts.

can you change the tips on darts? ive never heard of that, but again im pretty new and the darts i have been using are either cheapos that lose grip after a few months anyway, or the hammerhead style that uses replaceable tips by design. in fact, one of the reasons i got these darts was to get a decent set that didn't feel wobbly like the hammer head style.

thanks again guys!!
MC

[Regulatori]

Also try longer stems and thinner flights but in the same shape. I bet the tail will stick up even higher. Remember, thicker flights are heavier and going to weigh the tail down during flight.

Yeah, some players do throw hard while others lob. A good example is to watch videos like this from different angles. Barneveld is considered one of the smoothest throwers in all of darts and you can see him throw from different angles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzGMiMFJRw8

Unicorn puts out a lot of helpful videos for learning how to throw...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw531BZcGGA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSeobR2uLL4 (this is the guy that won the World Champs 2 years in a row)

Here is Tips from the Pros
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gykpTKQE..._0RSh4vRfu



Yes, you can change the tips on darts. It's very popular and most people have their favorite lengths, grip/no grip, color, etc..
I would say most range 32mm-38mm. The average is around 35mm.

You will need a repointer though. Most dart shops will do it for a small fee. If you have a big dart league nearby, email one of the representatives....our league has about 5 people with repointers and I'm happy to repoint darts if someone asks. I'll just have them meet me before a match. It only takes 5 minutes.

Here is 3 pages of points alone.
https://a180.co.uk/section.php/551/1/ste...ent-points
On the left side of the page near the middle, change to US currency. WE pay the non-vat price.
Try to stay away from any that have a barb or other hook. They will ruin boards. If you follow the directions in my signature, it will help you keep your darts from falling out.

And PLEASE, don't buy anymore Piranhas. They are WAY overpriced. You can get a good set of tungsten darts for $15-25.
I recently ordered a set of these from Unicorn. That's $20 for a set with everything.
https://a180.co.uk/product.php/4309/unic...k-included

Nodor offers darts that are a great value too. You can pick up a set of 90% tungsten darts for $20-35 and they're top notch quality.
https://a180.co.uk/section.php/125/1/nodor-darts-series

Need flights? These are my favorite flights and have used them for years. .50 cents a flight in all colors.
https://a180.co.uk/product.php/1377/dsx-...s-standard

Stems/shafts for .37 cents in all different lenghts/colors.
https://a180.co.uk/section.php/223/1/plain-nylon-stems


Shipping from the UK is only $5-8 too and usually takes a week.

You will save a LOT of money ordering from shops like this and not waste your money on $50 Piranha darts which are just overpriced.

[mcockrell]

just to update this, on a whim I ended up putting on some really large flights that I had laying around and wow....what a difference! seriously, I cant begin to describe other than saying that prior to the holidays I played pretty much every single day. about a year ago I put up a new backboard and we started writing down 180s and big outs on the backboard with the date. i have about 12-15 180s on there but i hadn't hit one since like September. that night i hit two 180s and an absolute ton of 140s. and the 140s were tight, like touching the wire. i also had about 6 robin hoods during that session. thanks for all of the advice!

[Regulatori]

Awesome to hear!! It's crazy how simple setup changes can give such different results. People will often buy new darts because they're not landing correctly or feel they aren't accurate for their throw....but a simple change in stem length, point length, flight size and thickness can all make huge changes in how darts fly. A lot of it is just buying different brands of flights, different thicknesses, etc.. and seeing what works.

These digital scales for $8 can be a huge help too. You'll be surprised at the variances in stem and flight weights. The key for you is to find a large flight that's lightweight but durable while keeping the tails sticking up.
https://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-0-...ds=aws-100

[AD18]

Good news indeed Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.   Glad to hear you have made a significant discovery and the results to prove it.  Now get a bigger recording area for the 180's Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images. Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

[mcockrell]

thanks guys! fortunately I have about 8 sets of those flights because I bought them when I was first starting and I didn't really know what was going to work for me so I bought a bunch of different stuff. the irony is that with just about every other set of darts I own if I put those big flights on there I will experience the exact same problem. I guess for those darts since the barrel is a lost shorter and putting the bigger flight shifts the balance toward the rear making the nose go up. but on the new darts it seems like for now at least its the perfect combination for the way that I throw.

[AD18]

I think you are with out a doubt on the right path.  What you are saying is EXACTLY what I have fiddled with and found over the last 2-3 months.  Most of my current darts are of the basic same size, shape, and length.  Close but not exact.  If I put the same flight/stem setup on each I get different results.  Some good, some bad.  This was sort of the basis of my post about bigger than standard flights.  It was very frustrating, but fun, trying to figure it out.  I had one set I wanted to play with, but got better scoring results with another and wanted to figure out why.  If you want to stick to one favorite barrel and play all the time with it then your job is done.  By a batch of EXACTLY the same brand and size of flights and stems.  Do not mix and match.  If you want to mess around with other darts then at least now you have an open mind on how to tune them properly via experimentation.  Some folks don't have the patience or curiosity to try and figure it out.  Personally I find it fun.  So glad you had success and the game is obviously more fun now.  Congrats and have fun Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.