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game vs practice thoughts
I read a John Part quote, that basically said keep your practice thoughts separate from your game thoughts....

Any idea what this might mean?
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My guess would be that during practice you may think of lots of things related to your throw. For example: am i doing follow through? can i get a new high score in the 'X' practice game? what if i tried pulling my hand more to the back ? and so on

These thoughts have no place during competing. During your game, it 's not the time to change things, experiment or allow your mind to wander to other things. You have to be focused on the particular spot of the board that you want to hit. Otherwise, it 's highly probable that you 'll end up shaking your opponent 's hand as you acknowledge your defeat.
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(06-16-2015, 11:03 AM)BigE Wrote: I read a John Part quote, that basically said keep your practice thoughts separate from your game thoughts....

Any idea what this might mean?

During practice you are trying to improve and you will experiment.

During the game you need to TRUST in your throw and keep things simple.
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Surely all throwing is practice to an extent, it just means more in a pressurised situation
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So, does that mean Part is wrong? That really there is no difference between practice and play?
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(06-16-2015, 09:30 PM)BigE Wrote: So, does that mean Part is wrong? That really there is no difference between practice and play?

No, Part is right. There's a big difference between practice play and match play.

In practice you only think about your throw. It's no use thinking about winning the game when there's no opponent to beat.
In a match you only think about getting your dart in the right hole so you win the game. Who cares about your perfect throw when you fail to hit that last double?

But the only way to practice matches is to play more matches. It's difficult to only think about getting the dart in the right hole when under pressure.
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Hi Red,

Did you join Flight School?
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I realize that many have been trying to tell me this all along, but some things you have to learn on your own to understand. In my first really noticeable stretch of improvement, my throw became only what I could describe as, a leap of faith. Instead of trying to direct the dart to the target, i focused more on the target and let my arm swing. Repeat the motion every time and damn the results. Only, the results were much improved. Maybe, it is zen like? Maybe, I have been wrong? What my arm does is none of my business! Let it do it's thing and swing it's swing. In practice, you can let that go a bit to try things. I figure that must be what Part meant. George was right, I was wrong.
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It is similar in concept to driving a nail. You do not think about the mechanics of each hammer strike. You simply do the task. This idea has helped me a lot.

I can hit 3 ones and 3 fives when going at twenty, but I figure that I will try to re-target and use the stroke to create the corrective action instead of forcing the arm towards the twenty. That force can be responsible for some wild darts.
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(06-17-2015, 06:59 PM)BigE Wrote: Hi Red,

Did you join Flight School?

Yes I did actually.
Is it obvious I'm using that as a basis or are you wondering what the hell I'm talking about? Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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Hey Red,

I'm doing Flight School now.

I thought that FS says the competition environment is just another challenge to your stroke. Like what ChrisTheFish said. That is why I find your remark, and Part's, confusing.

As I understand, FS says there is no difference except the pressure you bring to your throw. To be competitive, you must learn to control the negativity of "I'd better hit now, or I'm going to lose", or "I hope I get this" sort of thing, with the confidence of "I've done this stroke countless times, this is just another example."... as you sink the dart into the target.

Maybe that's what Part means.... keeping the thoughts of the game separate, is to keep them "at bay". So that the presence of the game does not adversely influence your throwing. Afterall, it's not like the added pressure will make you throw better right? It's generally the opposite, and it is that way for everyone.

Look at Barneveld -- his composure is terrific. You know the "game thoughts" are there only when he wins -- he sometimes allows himself to react strongly during the match. But you don't see that often. It looks like the "game thoughts" are far away.

Does that make sense?
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Hi BigE,

Sorry if the things I've said confused you even more, but it's all correct to a point.

The thing you work on mostly during FS is your stroke. Especially in A2 it doesn't really matter where your first dart lands, you try to do the exact same thing with your other 2 darts to get a nice grouping eventually.
In A1 you have minor pressure because there's segment aiming involved and even more so in A3, but there's still no sense of winning/losing
(Part: no place for game thoughts).

During a match you don't want to be thinking about your stroke. You want to focus on hitting the target.
Your mind is set to "you've done this countless times, just another example" and let your body do the rest. It knows what to do on muscle memory.
(Part: no place for practice thoughts).

Separate the two mindsets. One for practice, one for games.


I hope this makes a bit more sense when trying to compare FS to what Part said.
This is purely my interpretation of course.

Cheers!
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Thumbs up Red! That's a fine explanation you've posted there....
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(06-18-2015, 09:47 PM)BigE Wrote: Thumbs up Red! That's a fine explanation you've posted there....

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everyone here has really good thoughts about the subject but to me, this is the difference between practice and game:

The scenario is that you are stepping up to line to throw at 20s. 1st dart lands in T5, second dart lands in lower part of S20, third dart lands in T18.

Practice:
1st dart - CRAP!! I WAS SO CLOSE!
2nd dart - hmm...good line but I need to pick it up just a tad;
3rd dart - ugh...how can I be that far off?

Game:
1st dart - CRAP! I WAS SO CLOSE!
2nd dart - ok that's better, I can still save this throw
3rd dart - YESSSSSS!!!!!!! I WAS AIMING AT THAT ALL ALONG!

personally, I think that there is a practice that you should do for your mechanics, switching, outs, etc. but its also important to "practice" against other people. but its a different sort of practice. if you are in the middle of a game versus someone and its really close, you probably aren't going to change the way you throw at D10 just because you had a great idea. if you are primarily an x01 player I think practice is that much more important because playing in games you simply don't get enough throws at say 100 and under or 70 and under, which to me is pretty much the most important part of the game. I practice this religiously at home and its one of the reasons ive beaten people who were much, much better scorers than me. I think playing in games you just don't get enough throws where you need to hit a 13 or a T9 or something like that.

i agree with Balin and Grey Owl from the top of the thread and ill add this: if you practice the right things and practice the right amount of time, then there should be nothing going through your head during competition other than "what number do i need now". practice should be doing things to build confidence that you can take with you to competition. playing people is fine but sometimes you win because your opponent played like crap and sometimes you lose even though you played very well. so its hard to come away with a "score" of how you did sometimes.

dangit. ramble again. sorry!

MC
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