Harrows Darts.

Soft tip point options for heavier custom darts?
Hello,

I have a couple of questions regarding soft tip points that maybe the experts here at the Nutz could help me answer?

I throw a 22g Aaron Monk steel tip dart, and would like to have the same dart in soft tip. Given that a soft tip Monk dart doesn't actually exist, my thought is to use a custom dart shop to create them for me.

The options I'm considering are:
1. Fully custom copy of the dart with an acute tip. My instincts are telling me that this will provide the closest match with the steel tip weight distribution and in-flight behavior, (and possibly the strongest tip to support the heavier barrel). However, this would be the most expensive option.
2. Existing dart modified to accept soft points. I'd prefer to go No. 5 points, since that would require less tungsten removal but I guess I'd be concerned that these points wouldn't be as strong as the thicker 2ba's.

So I guess that summarizes down to a couple of basic questions:
1. Are my instincts correct regarding the acute tip option? Will that give me the closest "copy" of the steel tip version and longest tip life?
2. Does anyone have any experience regarding the robustness of a No. 5 tip compared to a 2ba with respect to using a heavier dart?
3. What would YOU do if you were making the same choice?

Thanks everyone in advance for any insight you could give! Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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Why not get in touch with Matt of Hands on Darts for his expert advice? Call him @ 678-773-7304. He can work on your Aaron Monk darts so that you can play it on both steel and soft tip boards.
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Good one majeek
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(05-12-2015, 07:03 PM)JohnK Wrote: Hello,

I have a couple of questions regarding soft tip points that maybe the experts here at the Nutz could help me answer?

I throw a 22g Aaron Monk steel tip dart, and would like to have the same dart in soft tip. Given that a soft tip Monk dart doesn't actually exist, my thought is to use a custom dart shop to create them for me.

The options I'm considering are:
1. Fully custom copy of the dart with an acute tip. My instincts are telling me that this will provide the closest match with the steel tip weight distribution and in-flight behavior, (and possibly the strongest tip to support the heavier barrel). However, this would be the most expensive option.
2. Existing dart modified to accept soft points. I'd prefer to go No. 5 points, since that would require less tungsten removal but I guess I'd be concerned that these points wouldn't be as strong as the thicker 2ba's.

So I guess that summarizes down to a couple of basic questions:
1. Are my instincts correct regarding the acute tip option? Will that give me the closest "copy" of the steel tip version and longest tip life?
2. Does anyone have any experience regarding the robustness of a No. 5 tip compared to a 2ba with respect to using a heavier dart?
3. What would YOU do if you were making the same choice?

Thanks everyone in advance for any insight you could give! Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

My take, and choice could be this:

The option of taking the Monk Steel and modifying it is out as you need to start with a dart that is about 3 g heavier than your target weight. I don't think Monk's come in 25 g.

You could think about customising a brand new dart with a 2Ba with minimal drilling (for the front) as you can find duralmin/duralumin steel points that weigh almost exactly the same as soft points - approx 0.4 g for soft, and 0.47 g for duralmin/duralumin (most other conversion points are closer to 1 g and above), so switching between soft and steel would have minimal impact. This is what I would choose right now as I find switching between a 1 g conversion and a 0.4 g soft tip at the front kinda messes me up a bit. But I'm a lousy player so take this for what it's worth. Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

You also have the widest options of soft tips and conversion points in 2Ba.

Monster has a duralmin/duralumin conversion points for No. 5 but that weighs 1.1 g.

Acutips or 4Ba closest I can find right now is the Bulls conversion point at 0.6 g. The Dolphin ones weigh in at 0.3 g. It's quite negligable actually, and you find that the custom makers can do that at a cost you're comfortable with, then go for it since you like the idea.

4Ba, like No.5 have the least amount of options in both soft tip and conversion points, but if you are the sort to just choose one option and stick with it for a very long time, it should be no problem.

Strength wise, I don't think you have any dart right now heavier than 18 - 20g barrel weight in No. 5. I personally don't think a 22 g barrel would present major problems to the tip, but no one knows right now.

For 2Ba tips, no issues at all. You have Shot! darts that have 2Ba which weigh up to 25 g. I use a Shot! 22 g barrel with 2Ba with absolutely no issues about the strength of the tip, both soft and steel ones.

Hope this helps some, and doesn't confuse. Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
NATURAL DARTS? https://www.dartsnutz.net/forum/showthre...?tid=22147

A beginner - always experimenting and learning. Lol! Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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If you plan on throwing on in a soft tip league or competition the heavy weight could pose an issue,,,,,depends on your local dart association rules,,,,,You might need to shave off 6 grams to make the dart leagal at 18 grams,,, just a thought,,,,
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Thanks a lot for the quick input so far guys... I really appreciate it! Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

Majeek,
Thanks for response. I've been thinking about who to have these mods done by, and Mike seems to have a good reputation on this site (and even better being in the US!). I'll definitely give him a shout in the near future. I'd love to hear his opinions on this.

Ancient Darter,
Wow! That was a fantastic response, and exactly the type of input I was looking for, thanks so much! I do wonder if anyone has customized a heavier set with #5 tips, and if they had any problems with breakage...

Oldjoblo,
I am fortunate enough to have 2 different bars with Dartslive machines within walking distance of my house, and those boards will take up to 25g. However, I see your point about playing competitively on other machines. Maybe a second, lighter set for those occasions in which I'd want to check out other places?
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I have play with both No5 and 2ba, lip point, No5 is as strong as 2ba, if not even better Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

And No5 being thinner and shaper profile, I use it to practise on my bristle board without the need for conversion tip. So no weight difference when practising. Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

I am using 18g barrel with 1.5g alum stem, so total weight will be ard 20g. So what is for sure is No5 no issue with total weight 20g. Personally I also feel that 22g barrel is not an issue too. Lip point tips are well known for their robustness and long life.
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John, so you want a 22 gram barrel for soft tips? Total dart would be approx 23.5-24 grams? Just curious as to why you feel you need something so heavy for soft tip. If all you play on is the Dartslive boards than you should be all set. But what if you go to a tourney with Arachnid boards or something else where the max weight is 18 grams?

There's a few negative factors playing soft tip using a dart that heavy. It's on the extreme side as far as weight is concerned.
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John you can get with me by phone or PM and I might be able to give you some possibilities on which way to go, be it 2ba, #5, or acute. I have been working on all of these tips for people.
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(05-13-2015, 01:59 AM)Cyanide Wrote: John, so you want a 22 gram barrel for soft tips? Total dart would be approx 23.5-24 grams? Just curious as to why you feel you need something so heavy for soft tip. If all you play on is the Dartslive boards than you should be all set. But what if you go to a tourney with Arachnid boards or something else where the max weight is 18 grams?

There's a few negative factors playing soft tip using a dart that heavy. It's on the extreme side as far as weight is concerned.

It's not that I feel I particularly NEED a heavy dart, I have several sets of "light" soft-tip darts (<18g) and know that with enough practice I can throw as well with them as with any other dart.

It's more that after a couple of years of chopping and changing (and destroying my game in the process), I have learned my lesson and finally settled on a set. I've been playing with this set exclusively for the past six months and watching my averages slowly start to climb back into the neighborhood they were at before I got the urge change. I'm happy with this setup. The shape, weight, grip, etc. all feel right to me and for the first time in a long time I'm not doubting my equipment. It is a great feeling!

The reason I want a soft tip set is because I have to travel 1:30 hours to play real live competitive steel tip darts. But I live in a town in which soft-tip is king. There are some really good players here and I can get out and play them within a 10 minute walk out my front door. I can get good real live match practice without the travel! But I want to be using as close as possible to what I have now while doing it.

It's been a long hard road to get to a place mentally in which I'm playing darts freely without worrying about the setup that I'm using. I am just really worried about changing my darts AGAIN after so much progress and possibly getting myself back into the tailspin of doubt that comes with that.

I know that this isn't fully logical and that it's all between my ears, but there you go! Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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(05-13-2015, 04:20 AM)Lathe Guy Wrote: John you can get with me by phone or PM and I might be able to give you some possibilities on which way to go, be it 2ba, #5, or acute. I have been working on all of these tips for people.

Thanks, Mike. I will definitely do that once I get some things sorted in my head! Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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Keep it simple. Get a set of your current darts made into soft tips. There might be a couple grams difference in weight but that shouldn't be a big deal. As long as the dart feels the same you'll be all set and ready to smash the trebles!
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no.5 and 2ba? it depends on your throwing style.

If your trajectory is higher in elevation angle, no.5 is not a very good choice. It will bend and broke easily.

In other words, if you break 2ba point often, using no.5 point will make even worse.
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(05-14-2015, 07:03 AM)vassilihk Wrote: no.5 and 2ba? it depends on your throwing style.

If your trajectory is higher in elevation angle, no.5 is not a very good choice. It will bend and broke easily.

In other words, if you break 2ba point often, using no.5 point will make even worse.

With today's advancements in soft tip points I can't imagine anyone breaking 2ba Lip Points very often at all. 3 points lasted me all summer long playing 2 times per week, sometimes more. Are people still breaking points playing soft tip?
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(05-14-2015, 07:08 AM)Cyanide Wrote:
(05-14-2015, 07:03 AM)vassilihk Wrote: no.5 and 2ba? it depends on your throwing style.

If your trajectory is higher in elevation angle, no.5 is not a very good choice. It will bend and broke easily.

In other words, if you break 2ba point often, using no.5 point will make even worse.

With today's advancements in soft tip points I can't imagine anyone breaking 2ba Lip Points very often at all. 3 points lasted me all summer long playing 2 times per week, sometimes more. Are people still breaking points playing soft tip?

I'm the one, lolGuests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

Because my trajectory is high, my points will always bend and sometimes breaks even i'm using lippoint. Especially when you are using heavier soft-tip like me - a 19g barrel with powershaft gen2.

In my experience, 4ba is the most less durable, I can break 5-6 points in one night. No.5 is medicore and 2ba works best for me. At last, it is all depends on your throwing style. My conclusion may not suits anyone, just for reference.

However, I now found that lippoint is not the most durable one. I found condor tips are last even longerGuests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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