Cricket Player's Playing 501
(11-19-2014, 04:15 PM)brenthahn Wrote:
(11-19-2014, 04:11 PM)Cyanide Wrote:
(11-19-2014, 04:07 PM)brenthahn Wrote:
(11-18-2014, 09:12 PM)Beacon_Darts Wrote: I'll line up more left for the 8/16 doubles, or more right for the 6/10 doubles, so that Im more straight on to the target. Otherwise I feel like Im throwing across my body or behind it, respectively.

Not only that, the distance changes. I move myself so I'm right in front of my target every throw.

Surely that can't be a good thing though?

Why?

A. I don't see it on the big stage from the pro's. (mostly)

B. Moving around doesn't build any sort of consistency. That was why I started this thread. Because I saw people moving for no 'real' reason. Of course everyone moves to work around a flight or a blocker dart, but to move along the oche and stand in a different spot because of shooting at double 16 or double 10 might not be the best thing to do. Just a best guess though based on the fact I don't see the very best players doing it.

And this is usually where the argument of "it works for me" comes in. Believe me, I've done things that I thought worked for me.
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If you are a focus shooter, like pipe... moving a little doesn't hurt. If you are a rhythm shooter, taking the time to move can screw you up.
-Milky

Keeping dart retailers in business since 2012.
[Image: DODLCOMPETITOR1_zpsff2d8071.png]
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(11-19-2014, 04:26 PM)Cyanide Wrote: Moving around doesn't build any sort of consistency.

Standing right in front of my target every time means I'm throwing straight ahead every time. And the board's the same distance away every time. You've still got the height variable, but a couple of others are eliminated. What about that doesn't encourage consistency?

But hey, I've got an open mind; I'm willing to listen to reason here. And all those TV dart pros can't be wrong. In fact, I'm even going to spend some practice time today standing in one spot and trying to discern whether I've been wrong all along.

I'll get back to you :-)

Late add re Milky's comment -- I hear you, and I'm a rhythm guy, but shifting on the oche doesn't seem to mess me up.
26's so far this year: I've already lost count. :-)

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My line of thinking has always been what Brent said... Im lining up with the 20 segment so that a repeatable straight up and down arm motion puts the dart straight into the 20, keeping the same "arm slot" and the same distance from me to the board. Why wouldnt I do the same with other segments? That the pros dont do it is however a valid point. Its worth trying without moving.
Current Match Setup:

DPC Gun Metal 25g w/ Voks Tornado points.

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If you step up to the oche and want to hit a bull, you're probably lining up straight on, or whatever set position works for you. If Im stepping up to the oche with 32 left, to me it makes sense to do the same with the D16.
Current Match Setup:

DPC Gun Metal 25g w/ Voks Tornado points.

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I've always been told you should be able to hit every double from where you stand and ive always applied this to every segment on the board not only double ... if theres a blocker dart or something and youve got no choice but to stay ... a scoring example if your on 230 and youve hit S20x2 and have 190 left you have no choice but to stay on 20s to leave 170 so that might warrant moving to the right or the left dependant on the lay but i cant see why youd move when throwing at different numbers with nothing blocking you
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(11-19-2014, 04:41 PM)brenthahn Wrote:
(11-19-2014, 04:26 PM)Cyanide Wrote: Moving around doesn't build any sort of consistency.

Standing right in front of my target every time means I'm throwing straight ahead every time. And the board's the same distance away every time. You've still got the height variable, but a couple of others are eliminated. What about that doesn't encourage consistency?

But hey, I've got an open mind; I'm willing to listen to reason here. And all those TV dart pros can't be wrong. In fact, I'm even going to spend some practice time today standing in one spot and trying to discern whether I've been wrong all along.

I'll get back to you :-)

OK, I've just done about 20 minutes or so of standing in one spot. I think if I were more of a "sideways" guy, it would be easier. But I'm not -- I'm closer to a "straight-on" thrower. Partly because it's easier on my back, and partly because I need to turn my head a little to get my left eye in the correct spot. But it means that if I'm standing in front of the bull and throwing at the lower left, like D16 or D8, my ribcage gets in the way of my arm. Disaster. It doesn't make as much of a difference on the right side of the board, which makes sense. Although my shots at 18 and 15 were landing a little low, which also makes sense.
26's so far this year: I've already lost count. :-)

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Sorry, to get off topic of cricket players and 501, but after reading the few above posts I could not resist asking about one point of moving on the oche.

I am in my second year of playing darts and when I started throwing I stood looking straight at the board then I was told that I should try standing sideways to see how that works. Well, I tried it and liked it after I was able to get my knee in the right spot so there was no pain. So for about a year and a half I have been standing sideways but I have always moved left or right according to what number I was throwing at.

After watching the videos on how to throw darts one of the past world champs said line up a little to the left so you arm is in line with the bull and 20. I took this to mean line up with whatever you are shooting at, so I move left for 12 to 16, maybe only 2 inches left for the 19, and then right the same amounts for the numbers on that side. Therefore I am always trying to throw straight ahead not at any angle.

If I would try to throw at all numbers from the center spot then the left side might be something possible but I have tried throwing to the right side and it causes pain in my knee or ribs and causes wild shots because I am facing the other way by being sideways and I would have to twist my body or hand to hit the right side. So why not just move right and throw straight?

I know what the pros do however I could not hold a dart like them nor do I have the talent they are born with. I have also joined FS and there was never any mention on standing in one spot and hitting all numbers. If it was implied it went right over my head otherwise I was just not aware that moving along the oche was a no no. When I watch people in my league they stand in all different locations and shoot with different types of throws so everyone is somewhat different.

To get back on topic most players in my league (USA, New Jersey) seem to like Cricket because it makes you hit certain numbers and those of us that can't hit numbers lose. 501 is looked at like a race to lower your total score and only hit the one main double when going out. The double in can be on any double which gives a chance of a lower player like myself a chance to hit one by accident and also get a high score by accident not on purpose. In cricket you have to hit certain numbers to close or score and if you can't then the advantage is with the player that can and scoring points can change what the other player shoots at. This is probably why most don't think about that cover shot mentioned above because the players are thinking about scoring in a different way then a true 501 player probably does.
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(11-25-2014, 05:55 AM)trekbowl300 Wrote: Sorry, to get off topic of cricket players and 501, but after reading the few above posts I could not resist asking about one point of moving on the oche.

I am in my second year of playing darts and when I started throwing I stood looking straight at the board then I was told that I should try standing sideways to see how that works. Well, I tried it and liked it after I was able to get my knee in the right spot so there was no pain. So for about a year and a half I have been standing sideways but I have always moved left or right according to what number I was throwing at.

After watching the videos on how to throw darts one of the past world champs said line up a little to the left so you arm is in line with the bull and 20. I took this to mean line up with whatever you are shooting at, so I move left for 12 to 16, maybe only 2 inches left for the 19, and then right the same amounts for the numbers on that side. Therefore I am always trying to throw straight ahead not at any angle.

If I would try to throw at all numbers from the center spot then the left side might be something possible but I have tried throwing to the right side and it causes pain in my knee or ribs and causes wild shots because I am facing the other way by being sideways and I would have to twist my body or hand to hit the right side. So why not just move right and throw straight?

I know what the pros do however I could not hold a dart like them nor do I have the talent they are born with. I have also joined FS and there was never any mention on standing in one spot and hitting all numbers. If it was implied it went right over my head otherwise I was just not aware that moving along the oche was a no no. When I watch people in my league they stand in all different locations and shoot with different types of throws so everyone is somewhat different.

To get back on topic most players in my league (USA, New Jersey) seem to like Cricket because it makes you hit certain numbers and those of us that can't hit numbers lose. 501 is looked at like a race to lower your total score and only hit the one main double when going out. The double in can be on any double which gives a chance of a lower player like myself a chance to hit one by accident and also get a high score by accident not on purpose. In cricket you have to hit certain numbers to close or score and if you can't then the advantage is with the player that can and scoring points can change what the other player shoots at. This is probably why most don't think about that cover shot mentioned above because the players are thinking about scoring in a different way then a true 501 player probably does.


So much going on in that response. I'll try to keep it quick and just focus on the highlighted part. Imagine Phil Taylor for a second. He has 76 left. He steps to the oche and hits a single 20. At this point he doesn't take a step to the left and line up to hit a single 16. He just looks over at the single 16 and hits it to leave 1 dart at tops.

Now imagine an American cricket player needing 1 20 for points and 1 16 to close. This is what I see all the time. The player will throw a 20 and close it. Stop. Move over to the left. Then hit a single 16. See the difference there?

It's my strong opinion that moving around like this slows the game WAY down and doesn't develop any sort of rhythm needed to play top level darts. It just doesn't work.

I live a really sheltered life as far as darts is concerned. I haven't been out in years so I really haven't seen many people play live. All I've seen are the pro's play on live streams week in week out. So I get used to watching how they play. Lately I've been out to a few leagues and a couple tourney's and my mind is boggled at how much people are moving all over the place. Shuffling all over the oche trying to force darts into a segment they don't need to hit. And it's not just one person doing it. It's nearly everyone.

I know a lot of you guys play local leagues. I'd be curious to know what people do in different parts of the world. I'm kind of wondering if all this moving is just associated with people that play cricket the majority of the time. Here in my area, it's the norm to move all around. So I'm guessing others wouldn't even notice? Weird though.
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A lot of it sadly does have to do with players wanting the elusive "ton" rather than paltry 97.

In our leagues we get extra points regarding ranks for every ton+ hit. I play in the middle league and still see it all the time. Last match I was playing doubles with my partner that also plays in the top league...I hit two 20's but they were right above the T20 wire...plus we were on a 179 so instead of going for that last T20, I did the cover shot for a 120 or 82 and barely wired outside the T19. My partner was shocked a bit..."I figured you would go for the glory...just about everyone does."

To me rankings doesn't matter. I know for a fact I'm easily in the top 1-2 in the league the number of 97s...but that's a score that never makes it on the rankings sheet. Oh well.

I also think soft tip players are obsessed with controlling the 20s at all costs...so when they move into steel tip, it becomes habit.

I also very rarely move on the oche. Only case is when I have everything closed out in cricket and going for bulls...and one of my darts happens to hit right below the wire low/tail up blocking the bull from my position.
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