What I've learned about selecting darts

[Geo Silberzahn]

(08-04-2014, 03:42 AM)Dartbuggy Wrote: Of course this is a great topic. We all must deal with this. My thoughts, first you have to decide what brings you the most enjoyment. If you want to take less time to become great, but restrict yourself to one set, stick with one set. If you want to be proficient with any dart you pick up, you have to throw different darts. Darts are individuals. You have to spend time with each of them. Putting in time with many darts is the long road around, no doubt. I just think it is more fun playing different darts. Throwing different darts is more fun to me. I try not to load up on one category, but rather get tokens of styles. I am getting maximum enjoyment from darts. Who knows? Maybe when I am 85 I'll be kicking some major donkey. For now, I be cursing the ones and fives. The peak of rotten darts, treble 12s and 18s, when aiming for 20. Rotten luck for us nailing treble ones and fives. Darts punish the smallest mistakes. Give up and flail about and it ain't so bad. 54! 36! Just saying' Buy darts and toss 'em.

Just to offer a different perspective, not to disagree:
I know of no great shooters who use more than one set of darts. There may be someone who does that I don't know about.
I see a difference between playing with darts and shooting darts . The competitor will use their darts as tools; the recreational player use their darts as something to tinker around with and experimenting to see how different darts parts set ups fly, down to the color and shape of their flights. I walk around in tournament halls and notice tables littered with flights which are perfectly usable, but someone thought a new set would make them a better player. To each is own, but the tool does not make the mechanic.

[Dartbuggy]

(09-19-2014, 11:41 PM)Geo Silberzahn Wrote:

(08-04-2014, 03:42 AM)Dartbuggy Wrote: Of course this is a great topic. We all must deal with this. My thoughts, first you have to decide what brings you the most enjoyment. If you want to take less time to become great, but restrict yourself to one set, stick with one set. If you want to be proficient with any dart you pick up, you have to throw different darts. Darts are individuals. You have to spend time with each of them. Putting in time with many darts is the long road around, no doubt. I just think it is more fun playing different darts. Throwing different darts is more fun to me. I try not to load up on one category, but rather get tokens of styles. I am getting maximum enjoyment from darts. Who knows? Maybe when I am 85 I'll be kicking some major donkey. For now, I be cursing the ones and fives. The peak of rotten darts, treble 12s and 18s, when aiming for 20. Rotten luck for us nailing treble ones and fives. Darts punish the smallest mistakes. Give up and flail about and it ain't so bad. 54! 36! Just saying' Buy darts and toss 'em.

Just to offer a different perspective, not to disagree:
I know of no great shooters who use more than one set of darts. There may be someone who does that I don't know about.
I see a difference between playing with darts and shooting darts . The competitor will use their darts as tools; the recreational player use their darts as something to tinker around with and experimenting to see how different darts parts set ups fly, down to the color and shape of their flights. I walk around in tournament halls and notice tables littered with flights which are perfectly usable, but someone thought a new set would make them a better player. To each is own, but the tool does not make the mechanic.

Wow. It is an honor to have you comment on my comment. I own and have read your last book. I occasionally review sections. It is a help to me in many aspects. I agree that there is a difference in playing with darts and shooters. However, I imagine all shooters had to play a little on the way up. I think darts are a game of focus and rhythm. Neither can be obtained if one is constantly switching-up their swing or dart.

Based on experiences in my life in other matters, I believe there is great benefit in trying many different things. Shooters' have already passed this point. These things become distractions.

See, if you spend time with a light dart, and a heavy dart, or a stubby front load and a long thin barrel, these things inform you of each other. They teach you things you would not have learned otherwise. All things are not equal. Sticking with the first girl, errr, uh dart you try may be a mistake.

I realize playing with darts is not the optimum method for improving focus and rhythm. But, I am improving on ALL my darts. Yes, I am still constantly changing set ups. It is extremely fun for me. But, I went about a month devoted to one set. That has changed, true, but there really is a narrowing down process going on. I am really learning the difference in the performance of different darts. And please realize, I am competitive. Competing against myself can never discourage me. I am motivated. And even though I may be playing, I STILL am working on focus and rhythm. The playing is not a complete loss in that regard.

I have experienced many ways to fling these things. Experimenting with grip has been crucial. The biggest improvement in my game is being able to fly them straight. That scalloped set is a b**ch to keep from twirling. Learning to tame that has helped all my darts. Experimenting with grips has been the key. I know ALL the pros say, "go with what feels most comfortable." My experience is in many things I have gone with what was most comfortable and have had to waste valuable time relearning the correct way for me to progress.

My hope, is eventually the dart will not matter at all, or I will settle on one. At that point, my focus will become focused, and my swing will have learned a repeatable rhythm. Maybe then I can be a shooter?

Are any of my opinions valid? Once (if) I become a shooter, I might be able to then say, this or that worked for me. I just started playing 501 about a month and a half ago. Have played about 70 games. Just calculated last ten game average at 34 darts. Best 28, worst 40. So, I am pretty poor still. But this is better than yesterday. I'm just having fun. Can't help it if I stare at the board so long I see a silhouette of it every time I look at a white wall.

[Geo Silberzahn]

(09-20-2014, 02:04 AM)Dartbuggy Wrote:

(09-19-2014, 11:41 PM)Geo Silberzahn Wrote:

(08-04-2014, 03:42 AM)Dartbuggy Wrote: Of course this is a great topic. We all must deal with this. My thoughts, first you have to decide what brings you the most enjoyment. If you want to take less time to become great, but restrict yourself to one set, stick with one set. If you want to be proficient with any dart you pick up, you have to throw different darts. Darts are individuals. You have to spend time with each of them. Putting in time with many darts is the long road around, no doubt. I just think it is more fun playing different darts. Throwing different darts is more fun to me. I try not to load up on one category, but rather get tokens of styles. I am getting maximum enjoyment from darts. Who knows? Maybe when I am 85 I'll be kicking some major donkey. For now, I be cursing the ones and fives. The peak of rotten darts, treble 12s and 18s, when aiming for 20. Rotten luck for us nailing treble ones and fives. Darts punish the smallest mistakes. Give up and flail about and it ain't so bad. 54! 36! Just saying' Buy darts and toss 'em.

Just to offer a different perspective, not to disagree:
I know of no great shooters who use more than one set of darts. There may be someone who does that I don't know about.
I see a difference between playing with darts and shooting darts . The competitor will use their darts as tools; the recreational player use their darts as something to tinker around with and experimenting to see how different darts parts set ups fly, down to the color and shape of their flights. I walk around in tournament halls and notice tables littered with flights which are perfectly usable, but someone thought a new set would make them a better player. To each is own, but the tool does not make the mechanic.

Wow. It is an honor to have you comment on my comment. I own and have read your last book. I occasionally review sections. It is a help to me in many aspects. I agree that there is a difference in playing with darts and shooters. However, I imagine all shooters had to play a little on the way up. I think darts are a game of focus and rhythm. Neither can be obtained if one is constantly switching-up their swing or dart.

Based on experiences in my life in other matters, I believe there is great benefit in trying many different things. Shooters' have already passed this point. These things become distractions.

See, if you spend time with a light dart, and a heavy dart, or a stubby front load and a long thin barrel, these things inform you of each other. They teach you things you would not have learned otherwise. All things are not equal. Sticking with the first girl, errr, uh dart you try may be a mistake.

I realize playing with darts is not the optimum method for improving focus and rhythm. But, I am improving on ALL my darts. Yes, I am still constantly changing set ups. It is extremely fun for me. But, I went about a month devoted to one set. That has changed, true, but there really is a narrowing down process going on. I am really learning the difference in the performance of different darts. And please realize, I am competitive. Competing against myself can never discourage me. I am motivated. And even though I may be playing, I STILL am working on focus and rhythm. The playing is not a complete loss in that regard.

I have experienced many ways to fling these things. Experimenting with grip has been crucial. The biggest improvement in my game is being able to fly them straight. That scalloped set is a b**ch to keep from twirling. Learning to tame that has helped all my darts. Experimenting with grips has been the key. I know ALL the pros say, "go with what feels most comfortable." My experience is in many things I have gone with what was most comfortable and have had to waste valuable time relearning the correct way for me to progress.

My hope, is eventually the dart will not matter at all, or I will settle on one. At that point, my focus will become focused, and my swing will have learned a repeatable rhythm. Maybe then I can be a shooter?

Are any of my opinions valid? Once (if) I become a shooter, I might be able to then say, this or that worked for me. I just started playing 501 about a month and a half ago. Have played about 70 games. Just calculated last ten game average at 34 darts. Best 28, worst 40. So, I am pretty poor still. But this is better than yesterday. I'm just having fun. Can't help it if I stare at the board so long I see a silhouette of it every time I look at a white wall.

How often you win, and move up in class of player you need to struggle to best will be your measure of how well your work is paying off. The dart you use is an inanimate 'thing' and will never change so the set up you use when you find your darts (all of them) sticking straight from the board is something you might consider the indication you've matched how you do it with what you do it with and all that's left is to perfect your use of your tools. Of course playing with darts can still be a fun thing to do.

[Dartbuggy]

(09-20-2014, 12:55 PM)Geo Silberzahn Wrote:

(09-20-2014, 02:04 AM)Dartbuggy Wrote:

(09-19-2014, 11:41 PM)Geo Silberzahn Wrote:

(08-04-2014, 03:42 AM)Dartbuggy Wrote: Of course this is a great topic. We all must deal with this. My thoughts, first you have to decide what brings you the most enjoyment. If you want to take less time to become great, but restrict yourself to one set, stick with one set. If you want to be proficient with any dart you pick up, you have to throw different darts. Darts are individuals. You have to spend time with each of them. Putting in time with many darts is the long road around, no doubt. I just think it is more fun playing different darts. Throwing different darts is more fun to me. I try not to load up on one category, but rather get tokens of styles. I am getting maximum enjoyment from darts. Who knows? Maybe when I am 85 I'll be kicking some major donkey. For now, I be cursing the ones and fives. The peak of rotten darts, treble 12s and 18s, when aiming for 20. Rotten luck for us nailing treble ones and fives. Darts punish the smallest mistakes. Give up and flail about and it ain't so bad. 54! 36! Just saying' Buy darts and toss 'em.

Just to offer a different perspective, not to disagree:
I know of no great shooters who use more than one set of darts. There may be someone who does that I don't know about.
I see a difference between playing with darts and shooting darts . The competitor will use their darts as tools; the recreational player use their darts as something to tinker around with and experimenting to see how different darts parts set ups fly, down to the color and shape of their flights. I walk around in tournament halls and notice tables littered with flights which are perfectly usable, but someone thought a new set would make them a better player. To each is own, but the tool does not make the mechanic.

Wow. It is an honor to have you comment on my comment. I own and have read your last book. I occasionally review sections. It is a help to me in many aspects. I agree that there is a difference in playing with darts and shooters. However, I imagine all shooters had to play a little on the way up. I think darts are a game of focus and rhythm. Neither can be obtained if one is constantly switching-up their swing or dart.

Based on experiences in my life in other matters, I believe there is great benefit in trying many different things. Shooters' have already passed this point. These things become distractions.

See, if you spend time with a light dart, and a heavy dart, or a stubby front load and a long thin barrel, these things inform you of each other. They teach you things you would not have learned otherwise. All things are not equal. Sticking with the first girl, errr, uh dart you try may be a mistake.

I realize playing with darts is not the optimum method for improving focus and rhythm. But, I am improving on ALL my darts. Yes, I am still constantly changing set ups. It is extremely fun for me. But, I went about a month devoted to one set. That has changed, true, but there really is a narrowing down process going on. I am really learning the difference in the performance of different darts. And please realize, I am competitive. Competing against myself can never discourage me. I am motivated. And even though I may be playing, I STILL am working on focus and rhythm. The playing is not a complete loss in that regard.

I have experienced many ways to fling these things. Experimenting with grip has been crucial. The biggest improvement in my game is being able to fly them straight. That scalloped set is a b**ch to keep from twirling. Learning to tame that has helped all my darts. Experimenting with grips has been the key. I know ALL the pros say, "go with what feels most comfortable." My experience is in many things I have gone with what was most comfortable and have had to waste valuable time relearning the correct way for me to progress.

My hope, is eventually the dart will not matter at all, or I will settle on one. At that point, my focus will become focused, and my swing will have learned a repeatable rhythm. Maybe then I can be a shooter?

Are any of my opinions valid? Once (if) I become a shooter, I might be able to then say, this or that worked for me. I just started playing 501 about a month and a half ago. Have played about 70 games. Just calculated last ten game average at 34 darts. Best 28, worst 40. So, I am pretty poor still. But this is better than yesterday. I'm just having fun. Can't help it if I stare at the board so long I see a silhouette of it every time I look at a white wall.

How often you win, and move up in class of player you need to struggle to best will be your measure of how well your work is paying off. The dart you use is an inanimate 'thing' and will never change so the set up you use when you find your darts (all of them) sticking straight from the board is something you might consider the indication you've matched how you do it with what you do it with and all that's left is to perfect your use of your tools. Of course playing with darts can still be a fun thing to do.

I realize this is someone else's thread about choosing darts so I don't want to hijack this into being about my personal development. I spend a lot of time thinking about darts so I have lots to say, but I will try to be brief.

I do not turn a deaf ear to your words of wisdom George. They serve as encouragement to me. I have been practicing alone as I have no friends that throw. After months of practice I finally got the courage to go out to a local for an LOD tourney. I took just one set with me. My practice did not let me down and I threw ok. We lost our matches but I was actually better than my team mate. The difficulty came with the adding of dart totals and the subtracting of score. I got very flustered with that several times requiring help. So since then I have bought a dry erase board and have started scoring myself at home. Your advice in the book to memorize the multiplication table up to 20 was something I would not have thought of, but I now have a chart stuck to my scoreboard. I have also started practicing outs. When I go out for battle again I will be much more prepared.

Your darts may be inanimate objects, but mine love and care about me. I know this because though I practice barefoot a lot, they have never stuck me in the foot. Though I am coming closer to one set for battle, I still try to make time to give them ALL the attention they deserve.

I think darts already thrown no longer matter. Personal best/worst are always in the past. Every next dart has the potential for glory, to hit the exact spot they were intended for. That is what is so addictive about the game. That is why I am putting in the long hours running routines and playing various games solitary. The dream is to play others and this is all preparation for that. This is the sorting phase of my development. One dart and one stroke to rule all is a goal, but my experience with 10 different sets has very clearly shown me that the darts do not throw themselves. They ARE tools. As long as they fly true and stick with a good attitude, it is all about me. And I am having fun and progressing. I think switching up a lot now has taught me these things and in the future I will have that awareness where I know switching is not a solution.

Me and wifey are meeting some friends tonite at a brewery that has 4 boards. I have taken a set the last few times we have gone there, but threw alone as none else was playing. I am taking 2 sets tonite hoping I can get Rick or Bonnie to have a few throws with me. Wifey tolerates my 24/7 jibber jabber about darts so I don't pressure her for not wanting to play.

[Geo Silberzahn]

(09-20-2014, 03:34 PM)Dartbuggy Wrote:

(09-20-2014, 12:55 PM)Geo Silberzahn Wrote:

(09-20-2014, 02:04 AM)Dartbuggy Wrote:

(09-19-2014, 11:41 PM)Geo Silberzahn Wrote:

(08-04-2014, 03:42 AM)Dartbuggy Wrote: Of course this is a great topic. We all must deal with this. My thoughts, first you have to decide what brings you the most enjoyment. If you want to take less time to become great, but restrict yourself to one set, stick with one set. If you want to be proficient with any dart you pick up, you have to throw different darts. Darts are individuals. You have to spend time with each of them. Putting in time with many darts is the long road around, no doubt. I just think it is more fun playing different darts. Throwing different darts is more fun to me. I try not to load up on one category, but rather get tokens of styles. I am getting maximum enjoyment from darts. Who knows? Maybe when I am 85 I'll be kicking some major donkey. For now, I be cursing the ones and fives. The peak of rotten darts, treble 12s and 18s, when aiming for 20. Rotten luck for us nailing treble ones and fives. Darts punish the smallest mistakes. Give up and flail about and it ain't so bad. 54! 36! Just saying' Buy darts and toss 'em.

Just to offer a different perspective, not to disagree:
I know of no great shooters who use more than one set of darts. There may be someone who does that I don't know about.
I see a difference between playing with darts and shooting darts . The competitor will use their darts as tools; the recreational player use their darts as something to tinker around with and experimenting to see how different darts parts set ups fly, down to the color and shape of their flights. I walk around in tournament halls and notice tables littered with flights which are perfectly usable, but someone thought a new set would make them a better player. To each is own, but the tool does not make the mechanic.

Wow. It is an honor to have you comment on my comment. I own and have read your last book. I occasionally review sections. It is a help to me in many aspects. I agree that there is a difference in playing with darts and shooters. However, I imagine all shooters had to play a little on the way up. I think darts are a game of focus and rhythm. Neither can be obtained if one is constantly switching-up their swing or dart.

Based on experiences in my life in other matters, I believe there is great benefit in trying many different things. Shooters' have already passed this point. These things become distractions.

See, if you spend time with a light dart, and a heavy dart, or a stubby front load and a long thin barrel, these things inform you of each other. They teach you things you would not have learned otherwise. All things are not equal. Sticking with the first girl, errr, uh dart you try may be a mistake.

I realize playing with darts is not the optimum method for improving focus and rhythm. But, I am improving on ALL my darts. Yes, I am still constantly changing set ups. It is extremely fun for me. But, I went about a month devoted to one set. That has changed, true, but there really is a narrowing down process going on. I am really learning the difference in the performance of different darts. And please realize, I am competitive. Competing against myself can never discourage me. I am motivated. And even though I may be playing, I STILL am working on focus and rhythm. The playing is not a complete loss in that regard.

I have experienced many ways to fling these things. Experimenting with grip has been crucial. The biggest improvement in my game is being able to fly them straight. That scalloped set is a b**ch to keep from twirling. Learning to tame that has helped all my darts. Experimenting with grips has been the key. I know ALL the pros say, "go with what feels most comfortable." My experience is in many things I have gone with what was most comfortable and have had to waste valuable time relearning the correct way for me to progress.

My hope, is eventually the dart will not matter at all, or I will settle on one. At that point, my focus will become focused, and my swing will have learned a repeatable rhythm. Maybe then I can be a shooter?

Are any of my opinions valid? Once (if) I become a shooter, I might be able to then say, this or that worked for me. I just started playing 501 about a month and a half ago. Have played about 70 games. Just calculated last ten game average at 34 darts. Best 28, worst 40. So, I am pretty poor still. But this is better than yesterday. I'm just having fun. Can't help it if I stare at the board so long I see a silhouette of it every time I look at a white wall.

How often you win, and move up in class of player you need to struggle to best will be your measure of how well your work is paying off. The dart you use is an inanimate 'thing' and will never change so the set up you use when you find your darts (all of them) sticking straight from the board is something you might consider the indication you've matched how you do it with what you do it with and all that's left is to perfect your use of your tools. Of course playing with darts can still be a fun thing to do.

I realize this is someone else's thread about choosing darts so I don't want to hijack this into being about my personal development. I spend a lot of time thinking about darts so I have lots to say, but I will try to be brief.

I do not turn a deaf ear to your words of wisdom George. They serve as encouragement to me. I have been practicing alone as I have no friends that throw. After months of practice I finally got the courage to go out to a local for an LOD tourney. I took just one set with me. My practice did not let me down and I threw ok. We lost our matches but I was actually better than my team mate. The difficulty came with the adding of dart totals and the subtracting of score. I got very flustered with that several times requiring help. So since then I have bought a dry erase board and have started scoring myself at home. Your advice in the book to memorize the multiplication table up to 20 was something I would not have thought of, but I now have a chart stuck to my scoreboard. I have also started practicing outs. When I go out for battle again I will be much more prepared.

Your darts may be inanimate objects, but mine love and care about me. I know this because though I practice barefoot a lot, they have never stuck me in the foot. Though I am coming closer to one set for battle, I still try to make time to give them ALL the attention they deserve.

I think darts already thrown no longer matter. Personal best/worst are always in the past. Every next dart has the potential for glory, to hit the exact spot they were intended for. That is what is so addictive about the game. That is why I am putting in the long hours running routines and playing various games solitary. The dream is to play others and this is all preparation for that. This is the sorting phase of my development. One dart and one stroke to rule all is a goal, but my experience with 10 different sets has very clearly shown me that the darts do not throw themselves. They ARE tools. As long as they fly true and stick with a good attitude, it is all about me. And I am having fun and progressing. I think switching up a lot now has taught me these things and in the future I will have that awareness where I know switching is not a solution.

Me and wifey are meeting some friends tonite at a brewery that has 4 boards. I have taken a set the last few times we have gone there, but threw alone as none else was playing. I am taking 2 sets tonite hoping I can get Rick or Bonnie to have a few throws with me. Wifey tolerates my 24/7 jibber jabber about darts so I don't pressure her for not wanting to play.

I may have beat you guys up enough so here's one more bit of advice: Be very careful of "Wifey" and her playing darts - if she gets the idea she can beat you at it I think you may find it much harder to enjoy the game.

[Regulatori]

One thing I might add that works for some people....a lot of darts will have a "honeymoon period" where they feel perfect at first and you think you've found the perfect set. Other darts may feel odd and you'll give up on them after 10 minutes of throwing.

Give every dart at LEAST a few dedicated hours of practicing. That doesn't mean switching back and forth between multiple darts, it means throwing the same set for multiple days and really putting some time into them.

My Lewis darts were the opposite...I threw them well the first few months and then something happened where I lost all consistency. Looking back (that was a few years back), I now know it was due to the nose of the dart...I throw a more pointed/cone nosed straight barrel (like a Barneveld Phase 1-4) much more consistent than I do with a blunt/squared off nose.

I have a few friends that purchased darts, threw them for 30 min, couldn't hit anything, and stuck them in a drawer. Then many months/year later they damaged or lost their main set and were forced to use that original set...and found after a few nights of practice, they were throwing "drawer darts" better/more consistent than their normal darts. Your grip, throwing technique, position on the oche, preferences in weight, will most likely change over time...don't ever throw a set and immediately write them off unless you really put some time in with them.

[Nucky]

Good point Regulatori - that "honeymoon" period will get you every time. I have a set of MVG darts that at first I was throwing pretty good with but lately it seems as if I "lost it" with them. Just cant get any consistency. I think the real key to switching and changing is to find what works best and go from there. For instance, lets say you discover that a John Lowe style barrel works best, so you use this dart for a while. Then you might discover that a certain grip helps more, so you get that style barrel with a preferred grip, etc etc. I think that if you are going to try other darts, you should use a logical progression to move forward in your development, selecting a dart that enhances your throw.

Just my two cents

[Regulatori]

(10-18-2014, 01:56 PM)Nucky Wrote: Good point Regulatori - that "honeymoon" period will get you every time. I have a set of MVG darts that at first I was throwing pretty good with but lately it seems as if I "lost it" with them. Just cant get any consistency. I think the real key to switching and changing is to find what works best and go from there. For instance, lets say you discover that a John Lowe style barrel works best, so you use this dart for a while. Then you might discover that a certain grip helps more, so you get that style barrel with a preferred grip, etc etc. I think that if you are going to try other darts, you should use a logical progression to move forward in your development, selecting a dart that enhances your throw.

Just my two cents

I totally agree! I look back at my dart barrel progression and realized I was slowly narrowing down the type of dart that works best for me without realizing.

I keep trying to tell friends that are interested in getting into darts that it's not necessary to go out and buy the latest/greatest $100+ darts as your first because you'll most likely progress to something different. My first set of darts compared to my current set are totally different in all aspects..grip, weight, shape, length, etc..

Instead of going out and buying that expensive set, look in the clearance sections or buy used...and try out some of the basic time proven shapes.

-Lowe style shorter bullet (40mm-ish length)
-Bristow straight barrel style (so many to choose from)
-Long torpedo shape (like a cheap McCoy Stealth)
-Barneveld style (Pure Darts make a good copy called a "Pure Darts Classic")
-Classic front loaded (Leighton Rees, Whitlock, etc..)

I tell people to the 22-23g range in the beginning.

You could buy 5 different darts used, clearance section, or from an inexpensive brand (Designa, McCoy, McKicks, etc..) for the same price as as some of the newer models with exotic grips, coatings, etc..

I also like to tell people not to be so concerned with tungsten ratings....80% is fine as long as you're not buying a 35g dart. We all know Raymond Van Barneveld prefers a minimally drilled out darts (look at all 25g Barney darts...there is almost no cavity beyond the rear threads). His new pro darts are 80% because that was the only way to achieve his preferred shape/weight/balance.

I also recommend buying a digital gram scale from Amazon for $10. I have one that is very accurate (cost around $8) and makes it easy when buying used darts from people in person in case the seller doesn't know the weight.

Cliff notes: buy cheap or used sets in the beginning.

[*Saber*]

bump

[Dalman]

Great thread! I don't think I really want to achieve the Holy Grail of finding that perfect dart just yet. It's too much fun trying new ones out that are slightly different!