What exactly is 'Natural'?
Exactly what is 'natural' in darts throwing? I keep on hearing the word or phrase, 'natural' grip, 'natural' stance, 'natural' rhythm and so on ... 

Let's take stance. I'm trying to think of when, or where, in daily life, does one have to stand, with 70% - 90% body weight on one foot/leg, cantering the body 20 - 35 degrees and remain in that position? 

Or the grip. Often also hear the term, 'natural grip' as in holding it this way or that way, or behind the smooth portion ..... 'is not my natural grip'. What exactly is a 'natural' grip?

When you were a child, and the very first time you picked up a small rod, what was that grip like? I would figure that would be the most natural grip, since external influence or knowledge has not entered the child's mind yet. Does anyone remember, or have photos of their kids (before you thought them how to hold a pencil or crayon?).

Let's say, what about for utility purposes? If one has not seen how a person hammers a nail into wood, or saw a piece of wood, how would one do it? Or throw a spear to hunt? Or toss a stone up into a tree to try and knock down some fruits that's too high up to climb after? Assume all these actions have not been witnessed before, and that person(s) has no inkling of how to do these things.

I have been wondering about this for awhile, and how it applies to many sports. I have some suspicion that a lot of techniques in many sports, aren't really quite natural at all, in that the action required, or a technique has to be learnt, or developed. And a lot of it depends on the techniques we learn, and how consistently repeatable can they be.

Thoughts, opinions and discussion please?
I don't think there is anything 'natural' about throwing darts. A person does not naturally stand sideways, with weight more on one leg, lean forward and swing to launch a projectile repeatedly, day in, day out as part of daily routine. One does not even throw a rock or ball that way.    ~ With darts, everything has to be learnt, and refined.  Wink

What is NATURAL? https://www.dartsnutz.net/forum/showthre...?tid=22147

A beginner - always experimenting and trying to learn! So I can fool around with loads of set-ups and techniques! Lol! Big Grin
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You seem to have the same understanding as I do on what is natural.

But in my own words, I say, natural would be something unrefined, unaltered, as is.  So in terms of holding a dart; the first time 'you' picked up a dart would be the most natural way 'to you'.  Same principal would apply for the natural throw or stance the first time you did that too.

For me; natural is the essential starting block. To get better at something you need to develop on top of that and from then it becomes un-natural because it's learned, changed, taught.
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The stance you describe is the exact one I use when there are two urinals close together without a divider.

I think the key is 'not unnatural.' There should not be anything overly unnatural in our game. No crazy forward lean, don't grip the dart with six fingers, etc. Many of the activities you describe above require whole body motion. Darts is one of the few sports where our bodies get in the way. Most of our setup is focused on having minimal extra motion, minimal moving parts, etc. So I guess 'not unnatural' serves as a better guideline, offering tons of room for personal approach and variation to the dart throwing activity.
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i guess holding a pencil or crayon, or hammering a nail into wood doesn't really require whole body motion, but throwing a spear or rock does. At any rate, those were just examples. It could be pretty much any new thing or activity that one has not watched, or learned to do  Wink and to me, and I think Swiiitch's thinking, would be the most natural - unrefined, unlearned. Perhaps awkward, and very likely, ineffective. That is, unless an individual has some form of intuition on how to do that activity. But is that 'intuition' really natural, or previously watched?

Many times, what seems to be unnatural to an individual, may be entirely natural to another - like holding a dart with all five fingers, or swinging back one's arm all the way and flinging it forward (with natural body flow motion as well). Some of us have seen that happening at a pub when a person first tries to throw a dart. If you walk along the bus stop, and approach people there who look like they've never watched or played darts, and ask them to hold a dart upright, my guess is you'll find all manners of holding, grasping, grabbing, finger-tip twinkling and so on going on. One or two might even hold it with point facing themselves. It's pretty much like 'common sense' ... what's common, or sensible, may not appear to be so to another. Big Grin

To get back to the topic ... from a natural, uninformed base, likely inefficient, to get better, one has to learn, to refine, and that then becomes 'unnatural'?
I don't think there is anything 'natural' about throwing darts. A person does not naturally stand sideways, with weight more on one leg, lean forward and swing to launch a projectile repeatedly, day in, day out as part of daily routine. One does not even throw a rock or ball that way.    ~ With darts, everything has to be learnt, and refined.  Wink

What is NATURAL? https://www.dartsnutz.net/forum/showthre...?tid=22147

A beginner - always experimenting and trying to learn! So I can fool around with loads of set-ups and techniques! Lol! Big Grin
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What is natural ??? Barney
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natural is what you do without thinking about it, that's is not forced
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(08-14-2016, 06:51 PM)Getagrip Wrote: natural is what you do without thinking about it, that's is not forced

Aye Darren, Elite Athletes mostly perform at the highest levels without thinking about the action they need to perform, and also from muscle memory. In the 'zone'. Onlookers see what they do, and wonder how they do it so effortlessly. Take for example, ISSF Rapid-Fire Pistol, or most ISSF precision slow-fire events, FITA Archery and Golf. I'm sure there are more sporting events, but these would be very good examples of high-level performance from the subconscious.

But before that can happen, a lot of thinking, training, practicing has to take place first to develop their form.
I don't think there is anything 'natural' about throwing darts. A person does not naturally stand sideways, with weight more on one leg, lean forward and swing to launch a projectile repeatedly, day in, day out as part of daily routine. One does not even throw a rock or ball that way.    ~ With darts, everything has to be learnt, and refined.  Wink

What is NATURAL? https://www.dartsnutz.net/forum/showthre...?tid=22147

A beginner - always experimenting and trying to learn! So I can fool around with loads of set-ups and techniques! Lol! Big Grin
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(08-14-2016, 06:51 PM)Getagrip Wrote: natural is what you do without thinking about it, that's is not forced
So does it mean if you start thinking about something it makes you force it?So if I`l fart, but put thought behind it ,my fart will be less natural then yours ?which will happen by natural happy accident when you meet gorgeous girl? Angel
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(08-14-2016, 11:17 PM)Troll Wrote:
(08-14-2016, 06:51 PM)Getagrip Wrote: natural is what you do without thinking about it, that's is not forced
So does it mean if you start thinking about something it makes you force it?So if I`l fart, but put thought behind it ,my fart will be less natural then yours ?which will happen by natural happy accident when you meet gorgeous girl? Angel

No because you cant change the way you fart, it will always be the way you do it.
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(08-15-2016, 09:26 AM)Getagrip Wrote:
(08-14-2016, 11:17 PM)Troll Wrote:
(08-14-2016, 06:51 PM)Getagrip Wrote: natural is what you do without thinking about it, that's is not forced
So does it mean if you start thinking about something it makes you force it?So if I`l fart, but put thought behind it ,my fart will be less natural then yours ?which will happen by natural happy accident when you meet gorgeous girl? Angel

No because you cant change the way you fart, it will always be the way you do it.
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Mr. Methane - Farting Man - Britains Got Talent 2009 Ep 5 on YouTube!  Big Grin


I guess in reality, when members describe a 'natural' grip, or 'natural' stance, or other 'natural' technique, I'm guessing what they could actually mean is one which could be more comfortable, or one that takes less conscious effort to achieve, but not necessarily natural since it's learned, developed, refined?
I don't think there is anything 'natural' about throwing darts. A person does not naturally stand sideways, with weight more on one leg, lean forward and swing to launch a projectile repeatedly, day in, day out as part of daily routine. One does not even throw a rock or ball that way.    ~ With darts, everything has to be learnt, and refined.  Wink

What is NATURAL? https://www.dartsnutz.net/forum/showthre...?tid=22147

A beginner - always experimenting and trying to learn! So I can fool around with loads of set-ups and techniques! Lol! Big Grin
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My natural grip was problematic. I changed, fought to overcome the difference and came out better. Same with my stance. In other sports I have had relearn techniques, because my initial instincts were wrong. This idea that your first inclination is correct, is a flawed idea. Get started first, but don't be afraid to try something different.
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Another great question!

My take on this is that there is, very broadly speaking, a "right" way to throw a dart (or hit a snooker ball, or hit a golf ball), which has been worked out over the years. No one uses the ways that just don't or can't work and I'd say these ways would be unsuitable due to the lack of repeatability.

So we have a template for the dart throw based on a solid stance, a comfortable grip and a throw which has the fewest number of moving parts. Of these I would say that the grip is the area where there's the most scope for "doing it naturally" i.e. the way you just hold a dart.

(08-14-2016, 03:28 PM)Ancient Darter Wrote: When you were a child, and the very first time you picked up a small rod, what was that grip like? I would figure that would be the most natural grip, since external influence or knowledge has not entered the child's mind yet. Does anyone remember, or have photos of their kids (before you thought them how to hold a pencil or crayon?).

We have two young boys, now 4 and 5, and they way I remember them holding stuff, whether to hit with or throw was in the palm of the hand with the fingers wrapped around it. Like the way you would hold a hammer. I guess that's the most secure way to hold something and at a young age they're not much concerned with precision.

When I get them a soft tip board to play on I'll see how they stand, hold and throw it without tuition.

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(08-15-2016, 02:30 PM)Banz Wrote: Another great question!

My take on this is that there is, very broadly speaking, a "right" way to throw a dart (or hit a snooker ball, or hit a golf ball), which has been worked out over the years.  No one uses the ways that just don't or can't work and I'd say these ways would be unsuitable due to the lack of repeatability.

So we have a template for the dart throw based on a solid stance, a comfortable grip and a throw which has the fewest number of moving parts.  Of these I would say that the grip is the area where there's the most scope for "doing it naturally" i.e. the way you just hold a dart.


And that journey, is basically a very learned or trained technique developed through years or decades of refinement if I am right to say. Basically, it's no longer natural at all going by the definitions other members contributed.

The grip I feel, and is probably evidenced in the thread about 'How you grip', one area where some of the most variations come into play, but likely, none of the grips featured there are natural in the sense that they were totally without learning, replicating, adapting, refining and so on.

(08-14-2016, 03:28 PM)Ancient Darter Wrote: When you were a child, and the very first time you picked up a small rod, what was that grip like? I would figure that would be the most natural grip, since external influence or knowledge has not entered the child's mind yet. Does anyone remember, or have photos of their kids (before you thought them how to hold a pencil or crayon?).

We have two young boys, now 4 and 5, and they way I remember them holding stuff, whether to hit with or throw was in the palm of the hand with the fingers wrapped around it.  Like the way you would hold a hammer.  I guess that's the most secure way to hold something and at a young age they're not much concerned with precision.

When I get them a soft tip board to play on I'll see how they stand, hold and throw it without tuition.

Sounds like a good idea! Get videos if you can. And don't let them see you throw darts for at least a few days or even a week if possible, so they would have consciously forgotten how to replicate your gestures and actions.  Smile
I don't think there is anything 'natural' about throwing darts. A person does not naturally stand sideways, with weight more on one leg, lean forward and swing to launch a projectile repeatedly, day in, day out as part of daily routine. One does not even throw a rock or ball that way.    ~ With darts, everything has to be learnt, and refined.  Wink

What is NATURAL? https://www.dartsnutz.net/forum/showthre...?tid=22147

A beginner - always experimenting and trying to learn! So I can fool around with loads of set-ups and techniques! Lol! Big Grin
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I think this thread poses a valid point. I can't imagine that accuracy is a natural occurrence. Accuracy requires consistency and repeatability. Finding those things is the holy grail of darts. Recently, I worked through my recent slump by adding something new to my throw. I discovered it by accident. It does not feel natural pointing the dart skyward on the backswing as I have begun doing. It feels awkward. However, I have had a weeks worth of significant improvement. Honeymoon? I am not sure. I need to take this out tomorrow night and see how it holds up under pressure. It is kind of scary hitting what I aim for and not understanding completely why. I think it's because it encourages more of a wrist snap and commitment to the throw. It is more of a pull and whip, where before, I feel I was having trouble pushing the dart off course. I need to keep practicing until it does feel natural.
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